Block and dodge in PvP

CHAPTER 1: BLOCK

For a long time, block and spell block were really overpowered in PvP. This is due to following facts:

1) In PvP high life or ES doesn't help you much as player opponents do huge damage, so it's often a one-shot kill.

2) Evasion is pretty useless due to spells, Resolute Technique or just the high accuracy crit builds have.

3) Armour rating almost doesn't reduce physical damage due to the nature of armour being not very effective against big hits. PvP only has big hits.

=> So Life, ES, Evasion and Armour are all not very effective in PvP. Block on the other hand, makes you avoid all damage completely 3 chances out of 4. It's not that hard to achieve 75% block/spell block.

Block was for a long time the only real defensive mechanism that worked in PvP. So everyone had a max block build. Consequence of everybody being block was that many people also went the sword way to overcome this defense, reducing build diversity even more.

Then they introduces the block chance reduction support gem. A 20/20 gem lowers enemy block by 44%, putting them on 31% block/spell block. Why is this sollution sub-optimal?

1) The gem is mandatory. If you face a blocker you will just need it to beat him. Anything being mandatory is never good for build diversity.

2) Most people only have a 5-link. 6-link is exceptional. Because of the mandatory support gem you'll only get a 4-link actually.

3) Curses in PvP can easily be countered with flasks. So you cannot rely on reducing enemy resistances with curses. That means for elemental builds you need a penetration support gem to be able to do some damage, there is no way around that. That means another mandatory gem, reducing your choices to a 3-link. There are very few skills that work in a 3-link. Again we are losing build diversity.

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CHAPTER 2: DODGE

When acrobatics and phase acrobatics were buffed, a new viable defensive mechanic became available to PvP. With little passive investment, you can have 40% dodge and 30% spelldodge without any gear investment. In PvP you need to avoid damage completely as players have such high dps they can one-shot you, so the 40%/30% (spell)dodge is huge.

Atziri's boots give 16% extra spelldodge, buffing it to 46%. If you also equip a daresso's defiance and have succesfully corrupted Atziri's Step then you can achieve 50%dodge/46%spelldodge.

Even if the opponent has a 20/20 block chance reduction, he'll still block 31%. Combining this with 50%/46% (spell)dodge means you'll still have a 65.5% chance to completely avoid all damage from an incoming attack and 62.7% chance to completely avoid all damage from an enemy spell.

These numbers are still huge! There is no way to overcome (spell)dodge, except playing one of the few builds that completely ignore dodge (like poison arrow, but that can be countered with Chaos Innoculation).

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CHAPTER 3: CONSEQUENCES

=> Block is still a mandatory defense in PvP, forcing the enemy to lose a precious link and still retaining 31% or more reduction if not facing sword-users.

=> Dodge is more then mandatory! It is so good for so few investment.

=> Atziri's Step is a mandatory unique against spellcasters. Nothing can be better.

=> Block chance reduction is a mandatory link for your main skill(s). That means getting a 6-link is even more important as penetration gems are also mandatory in the case of elemental damage users.

=> All in all, you are enormously forced into a build that uses the east-side of the tree, and probably will end up being a flicker-striker or an EK caster to have all-round chances of beating any opponent.

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CHAPTER 4: SOLLUTIONS

1) Block is soft-capped at 60% in PvP. The block chance reduction gem works with the overcapped block chance though (e.g.: I have 81% block: against a non-bcr skill: 60% block, against a 20/20 bcr skill: 37% block).

=> Although still making a huge difference, the bcr gem becomes somewhat less mandatory against blockers.

=> Blockers can counter the bcr gem by stacking crazy high block chance, e.g. with a Bringer of Rain, Crest of Perandus and an Anvil, or a Saffell's Frame, Stone of Lazhwar and Rainbowstride in the case of spellblock. They will have overcapped block and the gem will bring the effective block down by not so much as first the overcapped amount is removed.
This makes overcapped block very powerfull, but the investment is so huge that the build will suffer in other domains.

2) For PvP-only, Acrobatics and Phase Acrobatics are restored to their old 20% values.

=> Still makes (spell)dodge a great PvP mechanic, but less reliable as before. Most shadows, scions and rangers will still take them because it's such a small investment, but they don't make the huge difference anymore of today, just a very significant difference.

=> Every extra dodge you can stack is better then the former. Going from 0% dodge to 10% dodge is nothing, but going from 80% to 90% means getting hit twice less often! For this reason the Atziri's Step 16% spelldodge loses some value automatically if Phase Acrobatics is lowered to 20% spelldodge.

Summary: block is nerfed, dodge is nerfed, but in a way the block chance reduction support gem is also nerfed (because you can overstack against it). That means all three mandatory mechanics are tuned down, opening up PvP build choices.

NOTE THAT ALL THESE MECHANICS ARE STILL VERY POWERFULL IN PVP, JUST NOT OP LIKE TODAY.

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If this changes will not be made for 1.2.0, I'll simply play a max block / max dodge build in PvP. I would regret it though, if no other viable options are created. I would love to try a more creative build, but for now block/dodge is just too good not to take in PvP.

Life and ES are extremely important in pvp. Some guys have 2.5k hp, others over 10k. Who do you think is going to live longer? Not many guys, if any, can do over 10k damage in one shot, every shot.

Evasion is quite effective against non RT bow users for the most part, with Ondars.

Most top guys (which seem to be the majority that play) have 6L's. If you're just entering in to the game, then a 5L max I guess is fair to say. But then the rest of your gear probably isn't very good as well, so...

There are a number of good non-block/dodge characters at the moment. They generally have super high life and regen though.

My character has 4k life and just dodge (no block) and seems to do quite well. Well... 12% block on my staff, but I don't think that really counts for much.

Yea good idea. Lower all dodge to 20% and remove the only decent defense bow users have... The fact that you stated that 6l is not common tells me that you didnt spend to much time pvping.

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Yea good idea. Lower all dodge to 20% and remove the only decent defense bow users have... The fact that you stated that 6l is not common tells me that you didnt spend to much time pvping.

Please read before you reply. All I propose is to restore acrobatics and phase acrobatics to their original value, for PVP only.

That means you can still get 40% dodge and 36% spelldodge.

And it shouldn't be so that bowusers only can rely on dodge which is the case now. The hegemony of block/dodge should be breached. This thread is supporting more diverse defensive options for PVP.

I used to PVP a lot with an Arc Mine Witch. I could beat people with gear 5 times the value of mine. The only people who could beat me were those 10 times richer then me, who have 6-links.

PVP shouldn't be for the rich only, I know the dedicated PVPers all have 6-links now. But I'd like to open up PVP to more players with less wealth.

by removing or negating (by reducing to in-usability) different types of defenses available in pvp you force everyone to stack life and/or es as only viable defense. Removing variety from this aRPG will lead to boredom.

I play a dodge character, I do not know many dodge chars, even tho I PVP daily leading me to believe this is either a vastly overlooked OP defense, or people like to stack defenses that are not rng based (like life or ES).

I do not find I am unbeatable, even tho I am at 44/46 dodge, with 5 hp it is as if I had 9k-ish life/es, which is an amount many PVPers have. In fact many will say this is the optimal amount: 9-10k. Now, life ranger/life shadow can not stack this amount while taking nodes on the right side of the tree, since: 1 - they can not have a lot of str and 2. - just about 250-270% life is available in the whole right part of tree. Solution is getting legacy kaom. Do you think all life PVPers should have a leg kaom and all CI PVP-ers a 1k es regalia?

By removing/nerfing dodge you would just force people to quit playing life ranger/shadow and move to less rng based defenses.

I rather think that atziris step is a bit OP for PVP combined with phase VS casters. But that is a problem of the item, not the cluster.

I dont think that GGG will ever introduce varying values of passive nodes based on where the player is.