Pvp expectations ~ Podcast with devs

Podcast with Hegemony/Aux/Rory/Carl : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdCqkyeTC_g

Pvp discussion starts at 27:50 minutes.

This is really interesting and i hope this time it is not flying words that will never see the light.

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things they talked about in the podcast:

-Righteous fire needs balance.

-Spells elemental base damage is too weak.

-Spells were not built to fight monsters with spell block and that being said is an issue when it comes to pvp has they have no way to get around it, GGG said they were gonna fix it.

-Max block/tempest shield/block penetration needs balance.

-Block penetration green gem introduced by Aux to the devs and they respond to it.

-PvP will get more attention during next patches.

They talked about more things for pvp i encourage you to listen to the whole conversation i cant just type everything here.

So i hope GGG realizes that we are expecting a lot from upcoming patches so we dont get shat on again !

I'd like any attention at all for PVP, but its been so long with so little that its hard to expect anything at this point. A decent buff to spell base damage would be nice (especially at low levels) and a simple ladder for PVP itself would be amazing, but even the stuff they said they were releasing (pvp tournaments) got pushed back 5+ times and who knows whats happening with them now. Hoping they don't just put in an FFA arena with no other PVP changes then leave it to rot like with 1v1 and 3v3.

While I do agree that Aegis Aurora and Righteous fire need to be looked at concerning pvp. But I don't really agree on the curses. The amount of available clears you have from flasks are more than sufficient regardless if your opponent spends their points to get perma curse. If you cannot kill an opponent within that time frame to refill your flasks proceeding their death, then you are doing something wrong. Also concerning Aegis Aurora there are several counters to it, more dps in one swing, focusing around chaos damage to negate the shield etc. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

I also agree that Summoners don't get enough love in Spvp. I honestly wouldn't mind if there was a 10 second pre cast period before the match to summon your buffs, minions etc for the entire match. But that is highly debatable on the route ggg will take, as it is a very tricky one. My opinion is let them have their minions before the match starts and see how it pans out.

Also another thing I would like to point out regarding block builds is the obvious counter being explosive arrow. Because Ea can simply negate block. So just a friendly reminder before you call for balance to certain things, to remind yourself that there are counters to things like block. And just because you don't run it yourself doesn't mean that said counter doesn't exist and you should just have a more generic and easier access to it aka "gem that penetrates block" because you want to keep your pre existing build. I feel like that's lazy, rather than trying to be productive. Just my thoughts.

BringYourFriends

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BringYourFriends wrote:

[...] I don't really agree on the curses. The amount of available clears you have from flasks are more than sufficient regardless if your opponent spends their points to get perma curse. If you cannot kill an opponent within that time frame to refill your flasks proceeding their death, then you are doing something wrong[...]

This is kind of a mixed bag. While you are technically right, there is so much stuff you can only counter with flasks, even in low-lvl-dueling and more so in merc, like bleeding, Righteous Fire, physical crit and so on. As flasks are not refilled completely between the matches and we have no matchmaking-screen, you have to go into matches with a "fits-all-situations"-set of flasks. Also, you cannot easily replace one flask with another, as certain counters only work with certain flask-types, like "curse immunity" with long duration and "remove bleed/dispel burn" with short duration or instant flasks. Plus, many builds especially in LLD NEED certain flasks - above all mana.

Next you mention, that the immunity duration should be enough to kill your opponent, or otherwise the respective dueler would be doing sth wrong. Aside from the obvious flaw within that logic that you desperately NEED to kill your opponent in the first round due to the necessity to gain additional flaskcharges to be able to sustain curse immunity over the whole 5 to x rounds, because otherwise (s)he will simply snowball due to you running out of curse-immunity-charges, there is the point that curse-reliant builds (especially talking about LLD here) like viper-strikers are hit-and-run builds. So they will curse, attack and then try to outmaneuvre their opponent. Meanwhile you are chugging one potion after the other as their viper charges last for half a millenium and they simply cast tempchains/vulnerability whenever your immunity runs out. I mean, your build might be perfect and you might have more than enough damage to kill your opponent, but due to him/her simply exploiting one of your weaker spots you cannot do anything DESPITE you making no mistake whatsoever.

Now, I am not saying that those builds are too strong or anything, but my problem is that there are no real options given to the player. You can only counter so much as you have flask-slots in your belt. And too many things can ONLY be countered with flasks, especially bleed and curses, which is bullshit imo. I mean, look at chill/freeze for a contrary example where the mechanics allow you as a player to counter in multiple ways, thus making it more of a question of a thoughtful build, intelligent itemization and player-skill. Check this: you have passives that allow you to avoid chill and freeze, you have items like Alpha´s Howl, Auxium, Shiversting, Dreamfragments or Wanderlust AND you have flasks (of Heat suffix), plus the chill-/freeze-duration scales with your life. See, you have several options to plan for a counter to cold-dmg builds and imho chill+TC is STILL pretty strong.
Curses and pseudo-shotgunning puncture traps are a different story (note: I am not saying that curses/puncture are inherently broken and players that use those mechanics are bad/whatever) because the mechanics itself are too onedimensional. Puncture scales with the dealt damage and there is only one way to counter it: flasks. Same goes for curses... Make the opponent burn through his flasks and then it is pretty much autowin.

Therefor: you are technically right but if you consider all the circumstances then curses still need to be handled differently in the arena (same goes for traps imo).


regards

@Azdrubel

Dispel burn flask is not a counter to righteous fire and it does not work. The only small counter you can do is stack as much fire resist as you can and use a fire flask to get close to 100% fire resist.

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hauntworld1 wrote:

@Azdrubel

Dispel burn flask is not a counter to righteous fire and it does not work. The only small counter you can do is stack as much fire resist as you can and use a fire flask to get close to 100% fire resist.

puncture mines with vuln curse on totem, anyone can do this. still RF can leap slam in and kill you before they die

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hauntworld1 wrote:

@Azdrubel

Dispel burn flask is not a counter to righteous fire and it does not work. The only small counter you can do is stack as much fire resist as you can and use a fire flask to get close to 100% fire resist.

Thx, I am aware of that, but maybe I wrote it in a confusing way. Ofc I was talking about Ruby Flasks when referring to "counter" RF (though the flasks alone won´t cut it ofc). "Dispel burn" flasks make a high goddess-scorned or EA ignite obsolete though.

My point still stands, you need a shitload of flasks for every goddamn situation because we are going into the matches blind. That means, a lot of special-situation flasks will not be in our belt, thus not enable us to counter our opponents. It is just too much...