[28] Block is too powerful

Anyone that knows what they're doing in level 28 pvp is running a shield, or has high block through dual ungils, and anyone that knows what they're doing is using unblockable attacks/spells like spark and viper strike.

Build options are limited heavily by how powerful block is in pvp. 2 hand builds are just far too weak and the only person making it work right now is Himavat, and he uses a staff meaning he can still have decent block chance through passives.

There's a few ways to make it less effective, one would be a unique item that makes your attacks ignore block. Stuns would be too powerful if it were not for the unique amulet Chaluya, so similarly I think this would be a good option to open up build options. This could be balanced by having negative attributes on the item, again similar to the -20% HP on Chaluya.

Another way would be to just have a block penalty for pvp. Like 30% of your damage is still dealt on a blocked attack, or a straight block rate penalty affecting how often someone can block.


This isn't me crying "nerf the builds that can beat me", it's just me saying that I would like to be effective in PvP without being forced into a small number of builds that at this point are cookie cutter.

Your description is based on lvl 28 pvp. End game pvp is far more powerful and you can block spells and any hit actually , you will never be almighty vs all classes , it just wont happen :D block is not op because in order to make it effective u have to skip the dmg part.

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hulhutvlad wrote:

Your description is based on lvl 28 pvp. End game pvp is far more powerful and you can block spells and any hit actually , you will never be almighty vs all classes , it just wont happen :D block is not op because in order to make it effective u have to skip the dmg part.

Yes my thread with [28] in the title is based on level 28 pvp.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "block is not op because in order to make it effective u have to skip the dmg part". The reason I have an issue with block in level 28 pvp is because of the fact it narrows build options so significantly.

I do not want to be "almighty" vs all classes, I just don't want to be forced to play one of two or three builds to be competitive.

Again, if block is not an issue in high level pvp that's great, but in my opinion it's a pretty big problem in level 28 pvp. An item that ignores blocks would be the ideal solution in that case because if it's not an issue for high level pvpers then they don't have to use it.

Block isn't too powerful the main problem is that if you try to go physical damage and don't have got Facebreaker, Volls, quality Beartraps, excellent 1h swords or an excellent 2h Royal Staff you won't get high physical damage.

Else the main damage you build up is elemental which can be reduced to nothing in no time.

That's why you mainly see viper strikers and trappers in level 28 PVP and 1-2 physical characters.

Even EK gets pushed by elemental damage gems.


So there are following solutions:
There must be chaos resistance or something to cancel chaos damage effects.

Also reduce min level of level 31 gems to level 28 or create a level 31 tier PVP and remove level 28 PVP.

The only physical damage gem is melee damage on full life and going CI is useless since you can't reach 1k ES with level 28.

Sword has a block reduction node/cluster I believe.

While block is, indeed, very powerful, so is evasion. The issue is the lack of ways to counter block. Personally, I think block in pvp needs an entropy mechanic, similar to evasion, where too many blocks, results in a guranteed hit.

However, the issue with viper/bear traps is not that they go through block, though that's definetly a bonus, the issue is they allow for much more dynamic and effective kiting. Viper allows for a rediculously high dps output, with very little commitment (1 hit every 17 seconds?) the rest of the time, the striker can spend simply running and whirling around, which gives them a rather large amount of immunity, as there are no real immob effects. As to bear trap, that's simply something that needs to be addressed due to armor simply being useless bear traps if they crit.

Bear traps got a completely different issue. Get Hatred in that Blood Magic mask to reduce your life-->Low life.

Use 2 Redbreaks, Pain attunement.
Link beartrap with added fire lightning and cold damage and what you got is a bear trap that one shots anything on crit and a shadow is the best class for this build.

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EpsiIon wrote:

Sword has a block reduction node/cluster I believe.

While block is, indeed, very powerful, so is evasion. The issue is the lack of ways to counter block. Personally, I think block in pvp needs an entropy mechanic, similar to evasion, where too many blocks, results in a guranteed hit.

However, the issue with viper/bear traps is not that they go through block, though that's definetly a bonus, the issue is they allow for much more dynamic and effective kiting. Viper allows for a rediculously high dps output, with very little commitment (1 hit every 17 seconds?) the rest of the time, the striker can spend simply running and whirling around, which gives them a rather large amount of immunity, as there are no real immob effects. As to bear trap, that's simply something that needs to be addressed due to armor simply being useless bear traps if they crit.

I think there's many problems associated with the skills and such yet overall the effectiveness of block has been what stood out to me the most over my time in level 28 pvp. I do think that viper strike is so strong because it applies stacks on block. The kiting issue would not be such a problem because you would be taking much less damage overall if you could block the chaos stacks. I don't think that changing viper strike is what should be done however, actually making viper strike blockable is the opposite of what this thread is about.

If viper strike is changed then then you're left with like.. two viable builds left. Block is the core problem limiting build options so badly.

All my opinion of course.

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Barry wrote:

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EpsiIon wrote:

Sword has a block reduction node/cluster I believe.

While block is, indeed, very powerful, so is evasion. The issue is the lack of ways to counter block. Personally, I think block in pvp needs an entropy mechanic, similar to evasion, where too many blocks, results in a guranteed hit.

However, the issue with viper/bear traps is not that they go through block, though that's definetly a bonus, the issue is they allow for much more dynamic and effective kiting. Viper allows for a rediculously high dps output, with very little commitment (1 hit every 17 seconds?) the rest of the time, the striker can spend simply running and whirling around, which gives them a rather large amount of immunity, as there are no real immob effects. As to bear trap, that's simply something that needs to be addressed due to armor simply being useless bear traps if they crit.

I think there's many problems associated with the skills and such yet overall the effectiveness of block has been what stood out to me the most over my time in level 28 pvp. I do think that viper strike is so strong because it applies stacks on block. The kiting issue would not be such a problem because you would be taking much less damage overall if you could block the chaos stacks. I don't think that changing viper strike is what should be done however, actually making viper strike blockable is the opposite of what this thread is about.

If viper strike is changed then then you're left with like.. two viable builds left. Block is the core problem limiting build options so badly.

All my opinion of course.

I'll air this right now, I didn't pvp at 28, however, I pvped quite a bit in open, with bows, DW wands and Wand+Shield.

The issue with shield, is it will ALWAYS be fotm, simply because of the ability to add a third layer of defense, combined with the fact that armor/evasion are rather terrible. I have more of an issue with acrobatics providing a static and unchangable 27% miss, then shields offering a large amount of protection, with increasing passive costs.

This is simply the meta, until the benefit from DWing or 2Hing, becomes equal to that of adding more defense, you will simply never see it disappear. This is true in any competitive meta-driven game. If you nerf shield blocking, then you will see DW blocking (15% base) then staff blocking (12?%) Then you will see melee disappear completely and utterly. Blocking is really, one of the only melee specific and melee leveragable i28 benefits, you can't nerf them into inviability, you have to buff or introduce other things to either counter them, or mitigate them in a small way.

Next, viper strike adding charges through block is simply intrinsically broken, in the same way as bear traps and totems do, which is, in pvp, their dynamic utility, of being able to add manual dodging to your mitigation.

Block is fine in its current state ; I'd even say it's underpowered vs some builds like Viper Strikers (which shouldnt apply a stack when blocked). When using 1h+shield, you trade dps for a third layer of defense like epsi said, compared to 2handing. You can't expect a nerf to block and have everyone go for a 2h build ; it's all about min/maxing your toon. The only exception to this rule is double ungil's dual strike build, where block is indeed too strong ; I bet ungils wasnt meant to be dual wielded, yet the block from it stacks. It should be applied once only.

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Hilbert wrote:

The only physical damage gem is melee damage on full life and going CI is useless since you can't reach 1k ES with level 28.

Actually my latest low level pvp character is CI with 1100 es...