Making Ascendant Sub-Choices Feel Closer to Their Pure Counterparts Without Increasing Power

This is not a rework or a balance request, but an attempt to better align Ascendant sub-choices with the gameplay feel of their pure ascendancy inspirations.
Note to the reader
This post is structured in two layers.
You can read only the TL;DR for a quick overview, or continue with the full analysis below.

TL;DR
This proposal does not aim to buff the Ascendant or make it compete with pure ascendancies.
It adds small, conservative, flavour-focused bonuses to Ascendant sub-choices improving gameplay feel and thematic coherence.
All tested Ascendant combinations remain strictly below their pure counterparts in power ceiling, while offering more consistency, flexibility, and enjoyable hybrid playstyles.

Design Philosophy
The Ascendant is intentionally designed as a flexible, hybrid option rather than a replacement for any pure ascendancy. Its value lies in adaptability, pathing freedom, and the ability to combine partial identities—not in matching the raw power or specialization of a single class.
This proposal does not seek to revise or rebalance the Ascendant’s existing mechanics. All current functionality is assumed to remain intact and unchanged. The intent is strictly additive.
The suggested additions are small, conservative, and inspired by existing minor nodes already present on pure ascendancies. Their purpose is to make each Ascendant sub-choice feel more representative of its pure ascendancy inspiration, without introducing new scaling vectors, trade-offs, or compensatory removals.
No part of this proposal relies on reducing, replacing, or offsetting existing Ascendant bonuses. The goal is to refine expression and gameplay feel while preserving the Ascendant’s original design constraints.
In all cases, flexibility is favoured over specialization, and consistency over peak performance.
The Ascendant remains a hybrid by design.

Why This Does Not Cause Power Creep
The proposed additions are strictly additive and based on existing minor ascendancy nodes.
They do not introduce new mechanics, scaling vectors, or multiplicative bonuses.
All tested Ascendant combinations remain clearly below their pure counterparts in terms of specialization and power ceiling, trading peak performance for consistency and flexibility.


Detailed Ascendancy Analysis (optional)
Each Ascendant sub-choice is presented with:
Class Fantasy and pure ascendancy identity
Current Ascendant bonuses
Proposed minor additions
Resulting Ascendant profile
This structure is intentionally consistent across all classes.

Slayer
Class Fantasy
The Slayer is a relentless executioner who thrives in prolonged combat, cutting through enemies with overwhelming force and sustaining himself through powerful leech effects and precise finishing blows.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Attack-based melee specialist focused on overleech, culling mechanics, and consistent damage uptime against bosses and tough enemies.

Ascendant (current)
Culling Strike
Life Leech effects are not removed when Unreserved Life is Filled
30% increased Area of Effect if you've Killed Recently
Cannot take Reflected Physical Damage

Proposed additions
30% increased attack damage
0.2% attack damage leeched as life

Ascendant (new)
Culling Strike (original)
0.2% attack damage leeched as life (added)
Life Leech effects are not removed when Unreserved Life is Filled (original)
30% increased Area of Effect if you've Killed Recently (original)
30% increased attack damage (added)
Cannot take Reflected Physical Damage (original)


Champion
Class Fantasy
The Champion is a disciplined warrior who excels through preparation and battlefield control, empowering himself and allies with banners, fortification, and unwavering presence.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Durable attack-based ascendancy focused on Fortify, taunt-based control, and reliable offensive and defensive bonuses for both solo and party play.

Ascendant (current)
Melee Hits have 50% chance to Fortify
Taunt on Hit
15% increased effect of Non-Curse Auras from your Skills
Your Hits permanently Intimidate Enemies that are on Full Life
Enemies Taunted by you take 10% increased Damage

Proposed additions
10% increased attack damage
15% increased evasion rating and armour

Ascendant (new)
15% increased evasion rating and armour (added)
Melee Hits have 50% chance to Fortify (original)
Taunt on Hit (original)
15% increased effect of Non-Curse Auras from your Skills (original)
Your Hits permanently Intimidate Enemies that are on Full Life (original)
10% increased attack damage (added)
Enemies Taunted by you take 10% increased Damage (original)


Gladiator
Class Fantasy
The Gladiator is a master of arena combat, combining precise weapon strikes with bleeding techniques and exceptional defensive skill through blocking and counterattacks.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Close-range combatant built around bleed application, block-based defense, and reactive damage through counters and retaliation mechanics.

Ascendant (current)
25% chance to Aggravate Bleeding on targets you Hit with Attacks
Gain 50% Chance to Block from Equipped Shield instead of the Shield's value
Inherent Bonuses from Dual Wielding are doubled
Deal 1% more Damage with Hits and Ailments to Rare and Unique Enemies for every 2 seconds they've ever been in your Presence, up to a maximum of 50%

Proposed additions
10% increased attack speed
+3% chance to block attack damage
Attacks have 15% chance to cause Bleeding

Ascendant (new)
Attacks have 15% chance to cause Bleeding (added)
25% chance to Aggravate Bleeding on targets you Hit with Attacks (original)
+3% chance to block attack damage (added)
Gain 50% Chance to Block from Equipped Shield instead of the Shield's value (original)
Inherent Bonuses from Dual Wielding are doubled (original)
10% increased attack speed (added)
Deal 1% more Damage with Hits and Ailments to Rare and Unique Enemies for every 2 seconds they've ever been in your Presence, up to a maximum of 50% (original)


Juggernaut
Class Fantasy
The Juggernaut embodies unstoppable physical might, advancing relentlessly through enemy attacks while relying on sheer endurance, heavy armour, and unbreakable resolve.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Extreme physical defense specialist built around armour scaling, endurance charges, and immunity to crowd control, prioritising survivability over speed or burst damage.

Ascendant (current)
+1000 to Accuracy Rating
Cannot be Chilled
Cannot be Stunned
5% increased Damage per Endurance Charge
Gain 1 Endurance Charge every second if you've been Hit Recently

Proposed additions
30% increased armour
30% increased Endurance Charge duration

Ascendant (new)
30% increased armour (added)
+1000 to Accuracy Rating (original)
Cannot be Chilled (original)
Cannot be Stunned (original)
30% increased Endurance Charge duration (added)
5% increased Damage per Endurance Charge (original)
Gain 1 Endurance Charge every second if you've been Hit Recently (original)


Berserker
Class Fantasy
The Berserker embraces raw fury and reckless aggression, sacrificing safety in exchange for overwhelming physical power.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
High-risk, high-reward melee ascendancy focused on Rage generation and raw physical damage.

Ascendant (current)
5% increased Damage taken
15% more Damage
2% of Attack Damage Leeched as Life and Mana if you've Killed Recently
Cannot be Stunned while you have at least 25 Rage
Inherent Rage Loss starts 1 second later

Proposed additions
20% increased physical damage
Gain 1 Rage on Attack Hit

Ascendant (new)
5% increased Damage taken (original)
20% increased physical damage (added)
15% more Damage (original)
2% of Attack Damage Leeched as Life and Mana if you've Killed Recently (original)
Gain 1 Rage on Attack Hit (added)
Cannot be Stunned while you have at least 25 Rage (original)
Inherent Rage Loss starts 1 second later (original)


Chieftain
Class Fantasy
The Chieftain is a spiritual warrior bound to fire and ancestral strength, drawing power from endurance, elemental resilience, and sacred flames to dominate prolonged battles.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Fire-based ascendancy centered on endurance charges, life recovery, and physical-to-fire conversion, enabling durable elemental damage over time and sustained combat.

Ascendant (current)
20% chance to Cover Rare or Unique Enemies in Ash for 10 Seconds on Hit (
Unaffected by Ignite
20% increased Warcry Buff Effect
10% increased Strength

Proposed additions
Regenerate 1% of Life per second
20% increased fire damage

Ascendant (new)
20% increased fire damage (added)
20% chance to Cover Rare or Unique Enemies in Ash for 10 Seconds on Hit (original)
Unaffected by Ignite (original)
20% increased Warcry Buff Effect (original)
10% increased Strength (original)
Regenerate 1% of Life per second (added)


Warden
Class Fantasy
The Warden is a highly mobile hunter who survives through agility, awareness, and tactical defence, relying on evasion, spell suppression, and alchemical enhancements to mitigate danger rather than endure it directly.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Evasion-based ascendancy focused on movement, spell suppression, and tincture-driven utility, favouring avoidance and defensive consistency over raw damage scaling.

Ascendant (current)
+20% chance to Suppress Spell Damage
Attack Damage Penetrates 8% of Enemy Elemental Resistances
You can have an additional Tincture active

Proposed additions
30% increased evasion rating
Tincture applied to you have 20% increased effect

Ascendant (new)
30% increased evasion rating (added)
+20% chance to Suppress Spell Damage (original)
Attack Damage Penetrates 8% of Enemy Elemental Resistances (original)
You can have an additional Tincture active (original)
Tincture applied to you have 20% increased effect (added)


Deadeye
Class Fantasy
The Deadeye is a master marksman who dominates the battlefield through precision, speed, and superior projectile control, striking enemies from afar before they can respond.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Projectile-focused ascendancy centered on chaining, additional projectiles, and long-range damage efficiency, optimised for fast and aggressive mapping.

Ascendant (current)
25% increased Effect of your Marks
Gain a Frenzy Charge every 3 seconds while Moving
Skills fire an additional Projectile
You and nearby Allies have Tailwind

Proposed additions
10% increased projectile damage
10% increased projectile speed
10% increased global accuracy rating with bows

Ascendant (new)
25% increased Effect of your Marks (original)
Gain a Frenzy Charge every 3 seconds while Moving (original)
Skills fire an additional Projectile (original)
10% increased projectile damage (added)
10% increased projectile speed (added)
10% increased global accuracy rating with bows (added)
You and nearby Allies have Tailwind (original)


Pathfinder
Class Fantasy
The Pathfinder is a resourceful survivalist who thrives through mastery of alchemy and toxins, sustaining herself with powerful flasks while weakening enemies over time.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Flask-centric ascendancy focused on poison application, flask sustain, and utility-driven damage through consistent uptime and mitigation.

Ascendant (current)
10% increased Movement Speed during any Flask Effect
10% increased Attack Speed during any Flask Effect
Removes Bleeding when you use a Flask
Flasks gain 3 Charges every 3 seconds
25% chance for Flasks you use to not consume Charges

Proposed additions
20% increased flask charge gained
Flasks applied to you have 10% increased effect

Ascendant (new)
Flasks applied to you have 10% increased effect (added)
10% increased Movement Speed during any Flask Effect (original)
10% increased Attack Speed during any Flask Effect (original)
Removes Bleeding when you use a Flask (original)
20% increased flask charge gained (added)
Flasks gain 3 Charges every 3 seconds (original)
25% chance for Flasks you use to not consume Charges (original)


Assassin
Class Fantasy
The Assassin is a lethal predator who strikes from the shadows, relying on precision, timing, and decisive blows to eliminate enemies before they can react.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Critical strike–focused ascendancy built around high crit chance, power charge generation, and burst damage against priority targets.

Ascendant (current)
+0.75% to Critical Strike Chance
10% chance to gain a Power Charge on Critical Strike
10% chance to gain Elusive on Critical Strike
Damage from your Critical Strikes cannot be Reflected

Proposed additions
30% increased critical strike
15% chance to Poison on hit

Ascendant (new)
30% increased critical strike (added)
+0.75% to Critical Strike Chance (original)
10% chance to gain a Power Charge on Critical Strike (original)
10% chance to gain Elusive on Critical Strike (original)
Damage from your Critical Strikes cannot be Reflected (original)
15% chance to Poison on hit (added)


Trickster
Class Fantasy
The Trickster is an elusive opportunist who thrives on mobility and survival, manipulating the flow of combat through avoidance, recovery, and disruptive effects rather than brute force.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Hybrid ascendancy focused on evasion, Energy Shield recovery, action speed control, and sustained damage through survivability and consistency.

Ascendant (current)
Prevent +6% of Suppressed Spell Damage while on Full Energy Shield
2% more Damage for each different type of Mastery you have Allocated
2% of Damage Leeched as Energy Shield
Nearby Enemy Monsters' Action Speed is at most 90% of base value

Proposed additions
25% increased evasion rating
10% increased maximum Energy Shield
40% increased total recovery per second from Energy Shield leech

Ascendant (new)
25% increased evasion rating (added)
10% increased maximum Energy Shield (added)
Prevent +6% of Suppressed Spell Damage while on Full Energy Shield (original)
2% more Damage for each different type of Mastery you have Allocated (original)
2% of Damage Leeched as Energy Shield (original)
40% increased total recovery per second from Energy Shield leech (added)
Nearby Enemy Monsters' Action Speed is at most 90% of base value (original)


Saboteur
Class Fantasy
The Saboteur is a tactical specialist who controls the battlefield from a distance, deploying traps and mines with precision while avoiding danger through positioning and timing.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
The Saboteur is a trap and mine specialist focused on reliability, safety, and mechanical execution rather than raw damage scaling.

Ascendant (current)
30% increased Area of Effect
15% increased Cooldown Recovery Rate
Hits have 20% chance to deal 50% more Area Damage
25% chance to Blind Enemies on Hit

Proposed additions
10% increased Mine and Trap Throwing Speed
5% increased Movement Speed

Ascendant (new)
10% increased Mine and Trap Throwing Speed (added)
30% increased Area of Effect (original)
15% increased Cooldown Recovery Rate (original)
Hits have 20% chance to deal 50% more Area Damage (original)
25% chance to Blind Enemies on Hit (original)
5% increased Movement Speed (added)


Hierophant
Class Fantasy
The Hierophant is a devoted channeler of arcane power, drawing strength from vast reserves of mana to sustain prolonged spellcasting or command totems with unwavering focus.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Mana-centric ascendancy built around large mana pools, strong mana regeneration, Arcane Surge scaling, and efficient totem-based spellcasting.

Ascendant (current)
25% increased maximum Mana
+1 to maximum number of Summoned Totems
8% of Damage is taken from Mana before Life
Arcane Surge grants 10% more Spell Damage to you
Gain Arcane Surge when you or your Totems Hit an Enemy with a Spell

Proposed additions
30% increased mana regeneration rate
20% increased arcane surge effect on you
20% increased totem placement speed

Ascendant (new)
25% increased maximum Mana (original)
30% increased mana regeneration rate (added)
+1 to maximum number of Summoned Totems (original)
20% increased totem placement speed (added)
8% of Damage is taken from Mana before Life (original)
Arcane Surge grants 10% more Spell Damage to you (original)
Gain Arcane Surge when you or your Totems Hit an Enemy with a Spell (original)
20% increased arcane surge effect on you (added)


Inquisitor
Class Fantasy
The Inquisitor is a zealous judge who enforces divine truth through righteous magic, standing firm on consecrated ground while punishing enemies who resist elemental judgement.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Elemental hit-based caster built around critical strikes that bypass resistances, sustained by powerful life and Energy Shield regeneration through Consecrated Ground.

Ascendant (current)
Damage Penetrates 8% of Enemy Elemental Resistances
10% chance to create Consecrated Ground when you Hit a Rare or Unique Enemy, lasting 8 seconds
Effects of Consecrated Ground you create Linger for 4 seconds
Nearby Enemies take 10% increased Elemental Damage

Proposed additions
Regenerate 0.5% of life per second
10% increased elemental damage
20% increased critical strike chance

Ascendant (new)
Damage Penetrates 8% of Enemy Elemental Resistances (original)
Regenerate 0.5% of life per second (added)
10% chance to create Consecrated Ground when you Hit a Rare or Unique Enemy, lasting 8 seconds (original)
Effects of Consecrated Ground you create Linger for 4 seconds (original)
10% increased elemental damage (added)
Nearby Enemies take 10% increased Elemental Damage (original)
20% increased critical strike chance (added)


Guardian
Class Fantasy
The Guardian is a bastion of faith and protection, shielding allies through shared defenses, sacred auras, and unyielding resilience rather than personal aggression.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Defensive and support-oriented ascendancy focused on armour, block, reservation efficiency, and powerful life recovery for both the Guardian and nearby allies.

Ascendant (current)
25% increased Reservation Efficiency of Skills
Every 4 seconds, Regenerate 50% of Life over one second
If you've Attacked Recently, you and nearby Allies have +10% Chance to Block Attack Damage
If you've Cast a Spell Recently, you and nearby Allies have +10% Chance to Block Spell Damage

Proposed additions
30% increased armour
10% increased maximum Energy Shield
Regenerate 0.5% of life per second

Ascendant (new)
30% increased armour (added)
10% increased maximum Energy Shield (added)
25% increased Reservation Efficiency of Skills (original)
Regenerate 0.5% of life per second (added)
Every 4 seconds, Regenerate 50% of Life over one second (original)
If you've Attacked Recently, you and nearby Allies have +10% Chance to Block Attack Damage (original)
If you've Cast a Spell Recently, you and nearby Allies have +10% Chance to Block Spell Damage (original)


Elementalist
Class Fantasy
The Elementalist commands elemental forces with precision, specialising in controlling elemental effects and empowering allies through elemental mastery and golems.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Elemental damage specialist focused on reliable ailments, amplified exposures, and powerful golem buffs that enhance both offense and defense.

Ascendant (current)
Shocks from your Hits always increase Damage taken by at least 10%
Cannot take Reflected Elemental
Damage Exposure you inflict applies an extra -20% to the affected Resistance
+1 to maximum number of Summoned Golems

Proposed additions
20% increased elemental damage
+10% to all elemental resistance
20% chance to Shock, Ignite, or Chill based on highest Damage type

Ascendant (new)
+10% to all elemental resistance (added)
Shocks from your Hits always increase Damage taken by at least 10% (original)
20% chance to Shock, Ignite, or Chill based on highest Damage type (added)
Cannot take Reflected Elemental (original)
Damage Exposure you inflict applies an extra -20% to the affected Resistance (original)
20% increased elemental damage (added)
+1 to maximum number of Summoned Golems (original)


Necromancer
Class Fantasy
The Necromancer is a master of death and undeath, commanding armies of minions and manipulating corpses and auras to overwhelm enemies through numbers and sustained pressure.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Minion-focused ascendancy centered on scaling minion damage and survivability, corpse interaction, and aura effectiveness to enable powerful army-based gameplay.

Ascendant (current)
Your Offering Skills also affect you
Your Offerings have 50% reduced Effect on you
Minions deal 30% increased Damage
Auras from your Skills grant 2% increased Attack and Cast Speed to you and Allies
If you've Consumed a corpse Recently, you and your Minions have 30% increased Area of Effect

Proposed additions
Minions deal 15% increased damage
Minions have 10% increased maximum life

Ascendant (new)
Your Offering Skills also affect you (original)
Your Offerings have 50% reduced Effect on you (original)
Minions deal 45% increased Damage (original + added)
Minions have 10% increased maximum life (added)
Auras from your Skills grant 2% increased Attack and Cast Speed to you and Allies (original)
If you've Consumed a corpse Recently, you and your Minions have 30% increased Area of Effect (original)


Occultist
Class Fantasy
The Occultist delves into forbidden powers, weakening enemies through curses and debilitating energies while sustaining herself through dark energy and cold or chaos afflictions.
Pure Ascendancy Identity
Energy Shield–oriented ascendancy built around curse amplification, chaos or cold damage scaling, and strong ES sustain and control effects.

Ascendant (current)
You can apply an additional Curse
10% increased Effect of your Curses
Regenerate 1.5% of Energy Shield per second
Cannot Be Stunned while you have Energy Shield

Proposed additions
15% maximum Energy Shield
15% increased recharge rate
10% increased cold and chaos damage

Ascendant (new)
15% maximum Energy Shield (added)
You can apply an additional Curse (original)
10% increased Effect of your Curses (original)
Regenerate 1.5% of Energy Shield per second (original)
15% increased recharge rate (added)
Cannot Be Stunned while you have Energy Shield (original)
10% increased cold and chaos damage (added)

A few apparently problematic combinations
Assumption:
If these Ascendant combinations are not overpowered now, they will not become overpowered by adding a limited amount of minor ascendancy power.
With over 100 possible Ascendant combinations in total, analysing even a small subset already provides sufficient coverage. Expecting exhaustive examples would be unrealistic and would not meaningfully change the balance conclusions.
Case studies
Assassin + Deadeye (too high ranged DPS)
Guardian + Juggernaut (too high defence and survival)


Assassin – Deadeye (too high ranged DPS)
The proposed additions include:
• Increased critical strike chance
• 15% chance to Poison on Hit
• Minor projectile damage, speed, and accuracy bonuses

Crucially, none of these introduce new damage layers, multiplicative scaling, or automatic uptime.
Even with the proposed additions, the Ascendant version continues to lack the defining mechanics of both parent ascendancies.
Compared to Assassin:
• No access to Assassin’s core critical strike scaling mechanics
• No ascendancy-level critical multiplier amplification
• No sustained or guaranteed Elusive uptime
• No high-impact, condition-based damage spikes
Compared to Deadeye:
• No additional projectile scaling beyond flat bonuses
• No distance- or positioning-based damage amplification
• No ascendancy-level projectile interaction mechanics
• No multiplicative scaling tied to marks, movement, or range

These missing elements prevent the Ascendant from accessing the multiplicative damage ceiling of either ascendancy.
With or without the proposed additions, the Assassin + Deadeye Ascendant:
• Remains a fast, crit-oriented hybrid
• Gains optional utility through limited poison access
• Does not replace pure Assassin or pure Deadeye
• Continues to trade peak damage for flexibility and identity


Guardian + Juggernaut (too high defence and survival)
The proposed additions focus primarily on defensive consistency:
• Increased armour
• Increased maximum Energy Shield
• Flat life regeneration
• Increased Endurance Charge duration

Crucially, these bonuses improve defensive smoothness, not defensive ceilings.
Even with the proposed additions, the Ascendant version continues to lack the defining defensive mechanics of both parent ascendancies.
Compared to Guardian:
• No ascendancy-level Energy Shield reservation scaling
• No large defensive conversion mechanics
• No periodic full recovery effects or condition-based cleanses
• No party-wide mitigation keystones
Compared to Juggernaut:
• No armour-based damage mitigation scaling
• No unconditional movement or action speed immunity
• No ascendancy-level physical damage reduction
• No permanent mitigation tied to being hit

These missing elements prevent the Ascendant from reaching the effective immortality thresholds of either ascendancy.
With or without the proposed additions, the Guardian + Juggernaut Ascendant:
• Gains high defensive consistency, not invulnerability
• Excels at sustained mapping survivability
• Remains heavily dependent on gear and passive tree investment
• Trades offensive pressure for defensive reliability


Other apparently problematic combinations (non-exhaustive)
• Elementalist + Inquisitor (elemental damage consistency and sustain)
• Occultist + Trickster (strong Energy Shield recovery and control)
• Melee damage–oriented combinations involving Berserker, Slayer (or Gladiator), and Assassin

These pairings were intentionally not analysed in detail, as they follow the same structural pattern demonstrated in the case studies above.


Conclusion
This proposal does not aim to redefine the Ascendant or elevate it above pure ascendancies.
It preserves all existing mechanics and constraints while reinforcing thematic identity through small, conservative additions inspired by minor ascendancy nodes.
In all cases, flexibility is favoured over specialization, and consistency over peak performance.
Across offensive, defensive, and elemental-focused combinations, the Ascendant consistently remains below the power ceiling of pure ascendancies, trading specialization for flexibility and consistency.

This is not a request for power.
It is a request for identity.

the whole problem with ascendant is that watered down keystones don't fit in a game like POE. it's only redeeming quality is pathing for those builds that needs to go all over the skill tree.

a few extra increased mods are not going to change that, ascendant needs a full rework.

the first and easiest solution is replace it with phrecia aristocrat


it may need some fine tuning but in essence is what better defines scion all around character.


second possible solution is replacing keystones with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy" while keeping the forbidden flesh/flame unchanged. This should aloud scion to mix other ascendancies keystones at the cost of only having 2 keystones + 1 mini ascendancy keystone when the rest have 4 keystones.

I actually agree with the core of your point.

Watered-down ascendancy keystones are indeed the weakest part of Ascendant, and I don’t think a few % increases magically fix that at a structural level.
A full rework, or a system closer to something like Phrecia Aristocrat or real keystone selection, would absolutely define Scion more cleanly.

Rather than redesigning Ascendant’s structure, the goal here is to explore whether small, low-risk additions can improve identity and gameplay feel without touching:
– keystone economy
– Forbidden Flesh/Flame
– ascendancy balance assumptions

One of the constraints I explicitly considered is implementation cost.
The suggested additions reuse existing minor ascendancy modifiers and do not introduce new mechanics, UI changes, or rule interactions, making them comparatively easy to implement and iterate on.

In other words, this isn’t meant as an alternative to a full rework, but as a conservative, incremental improvement that could coexist with the current system.

If Ascendant ever gets a proper structural redesign, I’d fully expect solutions closer to what you’re describing.
Until then, this proposal tries to reduce how “empty” some sub-choices feel, without pretending to solve the bigger design problem.

"

Iamterribleatnames#6579 wrote:

the whole problem with ascendant is that watered down keystones don't fit in a game like POE. it's only redeeming quality is pathing for those builds that needs to go all over the skill tree.

a few extra increased mods are not going to change that, ascendant needs a full rework.

the first and easiest solution is replace it with phrecia aristocrat


it may need some fine tuning but in essence is what better defines scion all around character.


second possible solution is replacing keystones with "can pick 1 keystone from selected ascendancy" while keeping the forbidden flesh/flame unchanged. This should aloud scion to mix other ascendancies keystones at the cost of only having 2 keystones + 1 mini ascendancy keystone when the rest have 4 keystones.

This.

The core concept of Ascendant was never good, because why would you want to be a worse version of two real ascendancies? Scion needs her OWN independent ascendancy which has nothing to do with any of the others, either by just using Aristocrat or by playing into what makes the Scion the scion by giving you generic boosts to exp gain, extra passive points / free sockets, or some built in form of Omniscience where attribute points are completely interchangeable.