T17 maps are a mistake which worsens the validity of tile farming strategies

Despite how much explicit map modifiers got nerfed on the passive tree, it's still the best meta endgame strategy to run T17 maps in ways that optimize monsters dropping as much currency as you possibly can. Be it Blight, Incursions, or Strongboxes, running them in T17 maps continue to outperform "tile" leagues.

What's the point of farming Essence content if you only get a fraction of what you can pull out of a T17 map? Why bother running Heist when T17 blight encounters can dole out divines hand over fist? The time you spend farming Elder Guardians/Shaper Guardians/Conquerors for Maven invitations in the hopes you eventually get a valuable awakened gem to drop could've been better spent doing eldritch altars while slamming Incursions in a T17 map, and you would've gotten a lot more out of it for the time spent.

To put it simply: T17 maps, and how it optimizes map juice to such a ridiculous degree, makes everything else less desirable. If you want to farm currency for a chase unique, for example, you are simply better off doing it over anything else.

Do you like Bestiary? Do you like Ritual? Is Heist more fun than mapping for you? Does Sanctum scratch your roguelike itch? You can run them, but you have to then acknowledge the fact that you must be content with mediocrity as far as rewards go. Most endgame players know this which is why, after getting the bare minimum gear needed to run T17 maps smoothly, they all but abandon the rest of the game's content. You can take a look at the value of some of the scarabs if you want proof. Most of the ones that are expensive due to high demand are ones you can farm in T17 maps for spectacular outcomes.

Is this how Path of Exile should be, funneling oneself to such a limited option of peak endgame farming strategies and tossing everything else to the wayside?

worth adding:

1. scarabs for farms that could be run in T17 are dictated by highest bidders: T17 runners. Though its less of a problem this league as GGG F up economy royally and everything is beyond stupidly expensive. Thanks, GGG.

2. GGG looks at balance through the highest outliers and make global nerfs on what sub percent of players do. Was the "Okay T16" strat too juicy in T17? Well, not anymore.

3. Just as point #2, "global loot" is nerfed globally aswell. Rather than cut the very peak of the mountain unaffecting everything else, GGG is removing the bottom part of it making things worse for everyone.


Anything below 8mod T16 became part of expanded tutorial. We could seriously remove those 15 tiers of maps and beyond players reaching red maps faster by around 5-6 hours in day1 nothing of value would be lost.

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deothor#4810 wrote:

Anything below 8mod T16 became part of expanded tutorial. We could seriously remove those 15 tiers of maps and beyond players reaching red maps faster by around 5-6 hours in day1 nothing of value would be lost.

Well, it has been like this for several leagues, and that is exactly why we need real balance changes instead of these small surface level tweaks. T17 was a solid attempt, but in the end it was only a bandage that never touched the true problem, which is the runaway power creep that has been piling up for years. I would be perfectly fine with removing T17 and returning to the old structure, but only if they also tear into the core issue and bring player power back down to a level where endgame actually demands respect again.

Right now nothing holds up. Everything below T16 is basically an extended tutorial, and even T16 itself only pretends to be threatening when fully juiced.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

You can take a look at the value of some of the scarabs if you want proof. Most of the ones that are expensive due to high demand are ones you can farm in T17 maps for spectacular outcomes.

Sure, let's do exactly that then.



Preservation: T16.5s, Usually based on awakening scarab + one other expensive scarab to run two strats at 90% efficiency (harvest+ultimatum).

Catalysing: T16, layout.

Awakening: T16.5s, mostly used for harvest. Fractured farming is dead because tree and ritual is very mid.

Pandemonium(and Terror): T17s, group play unique hunting.

Containment: T16.5s and T17s, pilfering or just boxes but neither is priced around T17s. It's only run in T17s because of the barrel spawns in Fortress.

Bloodlines: T16.5s, map drop farm.

Invigoration: T16.5s, layout.

Risk: T16.5, harvest or blight.

Calcification: T16, small layout.

Cornucopia: T16.5.

That's a total of 1 scarab which gets outperformed in T16.5s by Kulemak allflames.

We have exactly one strategy that performs better in T17s this league which is boss rushing for uber fragments since it can't be done anywhere else. That's it. That's all there is.

So you farm 1-2 mirrors per day in the league by farming t17? Interesting.
If you're not farming at least 1-2 mirrors per day in the league with Bestiary, then you're definitely farming it wrong!

t17 seems an invention-excuse to put all uber fragments under ridiculous modifiers than anything else. People are taking adventage of the easy inflated %s on loot that they can target on top of double dipping with expensive scarabs. Same with t16.5 seems easier to sustain than t17 you lose a bunch of profit by not being able to get the uber boss fragments but who cares at that point.

The entire uber fragment system is really bad. The cost per fight, the rng on the number of fragments per t17 boss. All because they dont have any idea what to do with the uber fragment system but to add t17s. And this new "16.5" is yet another thing that is exactly the same route as the t17's. Massively inflated % on certain items (hello maven chisels system useless and mostly scarce even if you do destructive-elderslayers rush the drop rate on those are very very rare)

At this point the entire atlas need yet another revamp if this t16.5 and t17 are here to stay. What is the point in over 100+ maps when you're already know what to expect loot wise because it's not 16.5 or t17? the points? they can do better

It's clear to me that they are not very focused on poe1 at all from the resources that I've seen this league got vs the other game

tl;dr: remove the ability of using scarabs on t16.5 and t17 then finally stop nerfing the damn baseline loot t16 was supposed to be the endgame door now we have 2 more tiers how long until we get t18 or t20? where does it stop?.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

T17 maps are a mistake

Nah. If anything we need T18 maps going forward.

I cannot remember any farm that league that worked better in t17 than in t16 and t16.5. Even strongboxes are not worth running, because containment is 30-33?! strongboxes no matter the layout. I need 4,5mins on dunes and 7 on fortress. The fragments do not catch this up.
Meanwhile altars and simple t16 8mod delirushes or deli+blight made me multiple mirrors while t17 are still laying around in case I find any strategy worth running.

I guess we are playing different games.

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Xystre#4581 wrote:

t16 was supposed to be the endgame door now we have 2 more tiers how long until we get t18 or t20? where does it stop?.[/b]

Was, but t16 is no longer the endgame.

But in this regard t18 or even t20? Yes please, more and harder content is always good!

lol....you say all that and yet....

where do you think the essences and other currencies on the market came from? Thin air?

You think currency that "everyone does in t17s" because its the only way magically transforms into all the things YOU buy with it?!



Maybe.....just maybe......the folks that have the same values and mentality as you when approaching "optimized content" isn't nearly as large a crowd as you might think.

Otherwise we'd have significant shortages of all the "league currencies".

And if you are stating that t17s drop more of "everything".....then, uh, duh? There is this thing called a difficulty scale, which also scales rewards. Generally, in these types of games, with harder content comes greater rewards. Not sure why this is still a mystery or problem to some players.