Flameblast , Discharge and Bladeblast

hi ive been testing and looks like these 3 skills deals a ton of unsense damage in pvp even with the ''pvp scale damage values''

my thoughts about discharge :
discharge can ignore dodge and the most of defensive mechanics and the aoe isnt small

my thoughts about bladefall/bladeblast :
these skills doesnt have pvp values and when u combine these skills the aoe is like two screens

my thoughts about Flameblast :
i though this skill was already nerfed but the aoe ignore walls like Rain of Arrows , feels like is the Rain of Arrows for casters ,also can reach the same aoe of bladefall, and the damage can ignore block and dodge


i hope we can see some changes in pvp in poe 2, these 3 skills and many more needs some aoe / damage balance , there are no changes in pvp since 3 leagues ago , i know everyone have spend like 100+ ex in his pvp broken builds (even me) but pvp needs some balance

Discharge is in a weird spot, being able to do tens of thousands of screen-wide pvp damage while being able to become super tanky with Indigon, Divine Flesh, and dodge. On top of that, the near-instantaneous cast time Discharge can get makes this incredibly tough to deal with.

Bladefall+Bladeblast is like an unleash skill without the unleash penalty that abuses T-value to high heaven due to the fact it hits up to 40 times. Having huge reach via bladefall and bladeblast aoe really accentuates its viability.

The difference between Flameblast and Rain of Arrows is that you can't constantly suppress the entire arena with it. It is also absolutely misleading to say that Flameblast can ignore block and dodge, especially that it's a skill that is heavily punished by blocks and dodges. Having to spend time channelling Flameblast can spell death as tanky builds can use the opportunity to counterattack, and glass speedsters can use Flameblast's lack of instant aoe to get easy quickdraw kills. Flameblasters also have to be very glass if they want to kill tanks.

Discharge and flameblast are very similar. Both skills are dealing too much damage "per hit" which makes them 1 shot everyone now.

So discharge is actually by far the best spell out of all currently. Nothing comes even close to what you can do with it. You can still 1shot up to es/life pools of 50000 while being tanky enough to tank almost anything. Even after the nerf everything about it is insane. It is also a very good spell for indigon.

Blade Blast is the 2nd best spell even after the nerf. You can make a ridiculously tanky character with it and still deal lethal damage against any tank. It is also the perfect spell for indigon.

Then there is a huge bunch of tier 3 spells that are actually all quite similar in power. This list includes flameblast, firestorm, fireball, blazing salvo, spark, storm burst, bodyswap, purifying flames, lightning warp. Some others might make the list as well but I guess those are the most obvious that are actually fairly similar in power. Some have to be made more tankier than others for them to work. Some have to be pure glass to deal enough damage. Some work best or only with mines.

Also about dodge, block and walls.. They definitely work against everything and with everything. Dodge and block do interact a bit differently with BCR gem though. Overcapping block works vs BCR but overcapping dodge doesn't. Block and dodge are actually great vs any kinds of spells, especially against the ones that aim to kill with 1 shot.

If you were worried about Flameblast one-shots, you should honestly be worried about basically every other skill that can do so near instantly at extreme range like Crackling Lance mines, Lightning Warp mines, Purifying Flame mines, and Fireball AoE shotgunning. All of those are all incredibly less susceptible to block and dodge due to their spammability. All of those incredibly easier to play due to how easy it is to suppress the entire arena. We've honestly been in sub-0.3s kill territory for a very long time.

While Discharge trades spammability for near-instant (around 0.2s cast time) screen-wide AoE damage, its damage potential synergises way too strongly with just Farrul's Fur, Badge of the Brotherhood and Void Battery, allowing people to build extremely tanky with Indigon mana drinking, Divine Flesh, and Dodge as I said in my previous post. This is the key difference between Discharge and Flameblast, where you spend around 0.7s channelling while being incredibly glass (my build has under 4k ES). Try making a Flameblaster that kills real Indigon Tanks and you'll realize how many trade-offs you have to make in order to make it work.

Also having to aim to hit a 400 movement speed blinking target in a 0.7s kill window, hoping that the target will not dodge, block, or get a Solaris 50% less AoE dmg proc, is way more difficult than having things like spamming mines and having them basically do the aiming for you. I'd actually prefer if PVP went towards aiming skills over auto-target spam skills.

It's pretty funny how the PVP community as a whole just consists of super biased personalities lol

Folks will only defend what they use and attack what they don't use. It is the reason why PVP will never be balanced and people will always remain biased. Oh, and also cause GGG doesn't care...

In an actual PVP game, PVP is an integral part of the testing and is given a lot of attention and internal test/play time to avoid biased direction from players.
This isn't the case here.

Counting the days till Lost Ark releases in the west so I can finally experience real PVP done the right way in an isometric arpg lol

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xweezyfbaby3x wrote:

It's pretty funny how the PVP community as a whole just consists of super biased personalities lol

Folks will only defend what they use and attack what they don't use. It is the reason why PVP will never be balanced and people will always remain biased. Oh, and also cause GGG doesn't care...

In an actual PVP game, PVP is an integral part of the testing and is given a lot of attention and internal test/play time to avoid biased direction from players.
This isn't the case here.

Counting the days till Lost Ark releases in the west so I can finally experience real PVP done the right way in an isometric arpg lol

I'm wondering who you are referring to since I literally just said the 2 of my strongest builds are the most op ones. And yes that is the reason I made them because it is the strongest thing available at the moment. I'm not saying it is balanced.

I'm guessing what Coal wanted to say is that flameblast is very similar in power level as many other tier 3 spells. I'm sure he can kill anyone in 0,3s with 10 other skills as well with the full glass cannon gear that he has.

I Don t mind the 1 shot power those skills have but I think their AOE is way too high. I also think ROA should be included in the list even tho it can t kill tanks it will offscreen kill anything else.

I would favor an aoe cap in pvp arenas but I know some people don t like caps

I can't specify who I was referring to specifically, cause of "forum rules" but trust me.. they know who they are. Nothing new here.

Regarding the comment about AOE. I agree. AOE/reach and NOT damage is the main and real problem is PVP, always has been and always will be. 90% of the time if I reach you first I will win.

Going back to strong skills. YES that is the nature of the game. Why would I build on a skill that isn't high tier in PVP? Almost all my strong builds utilize strong skills in PVP which is what everyone else does as well. People just need to understand that not one single build or character is the end all be all and will be able to handle or beat everything. That is just the nature of this extremely unbalanced chaotic game and how its mechanics operate from the ground up. It wasn't built for this. Almost all my top characters are glass cannons and they all will suffer against one type of build while do very well against another type of build... Which is why I have many builds for that purpose lol I don't just play one character and expect it to do well against everything..

Examples,

An archer will beat a miner 90% of the time and most casters because of higher reach and AOE. BUT will somewhat struggle against really heavy tanks.

A miner will most likely destroy these tanks just based on the stacking mechanic of mines and the added dmg of the nature of that mechanic especially if built glass cannon which is always almost the case. A miner with enough aoe can also beat most casters BUT will suffer against much higher range folks like far reaching casters and archers with bigger aoes which is usually the case in high-end PVP.

You can't have everything..

Even with a powerful skill like discharge. To kill Indigon infinite mana flask leech tanks, you have to go close up within range (without nova ring) and hope that your hit isn't blocked or dodged and hope that your gear has enough damage to do this AND if it does this means you are a glass cannon yourself and will probably take maximum 1-2 hits before perishing.

Again, you can't have everything..

A part of the equation is also gear and skill based but skill is pretty minimal given how mechanics work in this game regarding aoe and damage.
Not to mention the massive advantage a widescreen can give you as well.

Problems arise when you can do BOTH things at once. Have decent to amazing DPS while being able to tank almost everything. A perfect example of this would be the current Indigon infinite mana flask life leech tanker archetype that can ALSO equip and use any high tier PVP skill they feel like AND do high damage with it as well due to a busted item called Indigon. All that while being simultaneously unbelievably tanky.
Flasks have always been a problem in PVP even 5-6 years back when people used Zerphy's Last Breath to do the exact same thing. History repeating itself. You get the best of both worlds. But that isn't a problem with the skills used. It is a mechanical synergetic ITEMS problem.

Outside/excluding this specific build archetype. The theoretical problem is players that believe their builds should do good against everything... which is not possible.

Again, I can't point out any names or anyone specific due to the rules but I hope that I was as articulate and clear as I can be.

Just in case you were referring to me, I really don't think Flameblast should win versus everything, but at least it should have its tank-punching niche when it has to build glass to do it. It was never made to outspeed other options like Bows or Mines. If I really wanted to do that I'd just turn my Flameblaster into a Fireballer, but I really hate playing Fireball.

I've seen the numbers on tanky Dischargers and they're significantly higher than what my Flameblaster can do while being able to take advantage of tank stats. If that still manages to consistently lose to dedicated Indigon tanks, then I guess we really do have a build that can do it all.

I actually really do wonder what would happen if GGG just halved AoE, projectile speed, brand attachment range and mine targetting range in PVP. That would at least a big meta shake-up.