Juggernout: Perma Immortall Call vs Armour (Beginners questions)

Okay, I am not really a beginner but until now I played mainly witches and now I want to shake things up.

My Jugg is lv77 and with Unflinching and SSF-gear constantly at 6 Endurance Charges. This allows basically perma-Immortall Call in a CwDt setup. I didn't know this when I started the character and wanted to go into heavy armour as I haven't done that on any previous build. But now this feels really pointless. I looked into several build guides but my current char is pretty hipster (trying out Chaos-Dot-Totems+Juggernaut) and I didn't rly find the answers I was looking for...

a) When you have perma-Immortall Call then you don't need any armour, right?

b) The investment into perma-IC is so low that there is no reason not to do it, right? It basically only costs 2 gem sockets.

c) Are there good reasons to not run IC?

d) Are there any benefits / builds that utilize not having IC?

imo is the most useless stat in the game, becasue it doenst rly help vs the big physical hits...
so yeah when you got ic armor doesnt matter


b) dunno never run perm ic
c) i use the sockeds for something else ,, no more room left
d) more dmg / more movespeed / more def in other forms ( curses / slows etc )

a) Depends. If you get 1 shot, IC isn't going to proc and you'll be on the ground dead. However, if you can reliably proc IC before getting hit, then no, you don't need any armour.

b) I don't know any good builds that don't use CWDT + IC, let's just put it that way ;)

c) If you are trying to do a CWDT loop with physical damage taken, IC would completely break that

d) See b). Although, some builds do lack the gem sockets and will go without it. Especially on classes that don't have good Endurance Charge generation to increase the duration.

I'm also new to Jugg, but did a bit of reading into this issue. Apparently, the Immortal call setup is good for unbreakable ascendency as all the physical damage you prevent from immortal call still adds to your life regen.

So since a Jugg should not expect to be oneshot, Immortal call becomes the best choice unless you are:

- socket starved
- trying to receive damage to proc CWDT or similar setup
- your build unavoidably gets a lot of armour so you want to use sockets for utility or damage or something.

Of course none of these solve the problem with armour, in that it is only useful when you do not need it.

Thx for the replies, helpful insights.

Is there any reason to go with armour and drop immortal call other than "save 2 gem sockets" or a crazy CwDt-self-hit-loop?


Only thing I found is this: Without Immortal Call you can actually use the ele resis from endurance charges to cap your resists. You just have to make sure that you get hit once every 15 seconds or so (or you hit yourself, for example with Doedre's Elixir). Allows to squeeze an additional unique item in and still capping resist :)

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KiraPoE wrote:

b) I don't know any good builds that don't use CWDT + IC, let's just put it that way ;)

I have always had a CwDt-IC-setup since my first char and after this comment I started thinking... Is it really necessary?
I have played the last 10 hours or so on my old chars and swapped out IC, I feel no difference. I know there are some niche situations where you would wanna have it (e.g. porcupines) but my updated opinion is: If you can use CwDt-IC-sockets otherwise, go for it...
(Chars I used to test had big health pools and no endurance charges though, so this whole point I make here is kinda off-topic^^)

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Lightelder wrote:

Thx for the replies :)


One thing I found is this: Without Immortal Call you can actually use the ele resis from endurance charges to cap your resists. You just have to make sure that you get hit once every 15 seconds or so (or you hit yourself, for example with Doedre's Elixir).

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KiraPoE wrote:

b) I don't know any good builds that don't use CWDT + IC, let's just put it that way ;)

I have always had a CwDt-IC-setup since my first char and after this comment I started thinking... Is it really necessary?
I have played the last 10 hours or so on my old chars and swapped out IC, I feel no difference. I know there are some niche situations where you would wanna have it (e.g. porcupines) but my updated opinion is: If you can use CwDt-IC-sockets otherwise, go for it...
(Chars I used to test had big health pools and no endurance charges though, so this whole point I make here is kinda off-topic^^)

On a squishy character, not having CWDT - IC is enough to get one shotted by porcupines.

You should never rely on Endurance Charges for elemental resistance because you might get 1 shot before your charges are up. And if you are a Juggernaut, you will always have Endurance Charges even if you use Immortal Call.

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KiraPoE wrote:

On a squishy character, not having CWDT - IC is enough to get one shotted by porcupines.

You should never rely on Endurance Charges for elemental resistance because you might get 1 shot before your charges are up. And if you are a Juggernaut, you will always have Endurance Charges even if you use Immortal Call.

Ahh ok I get that. I really wanna make my Jugg use armour and need a sensible excuse to not use IC. My current Jugg uses one Doedre's Elixier upon entering a map and then has max endurance charges due to receiving a hit + Unflinching. If I am not squishy and don't use IC, I can now go for 50% ele resist and 7 endurance charges will cap my resists. Since I am a totem build I can keep porcupines at a distance where they don't one-shot me (It's not the safest build, but hey, it wasn't supposed to be^^). If I had IC, I would drop to 50-60% ele resis after proccing IC which would result in 100% more ele damage taken for 1-3 seconds, which I try to avoid, thus no IC.
I think in this convoluted case I constructed, I actually can rely on endurance charge resists and have a "good" reason to not use IC. Unless I have missed something... did I miss something... oh I'm sure I did... :/

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Lightelder wrote:

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KiraPoE wrote:

On a squishy character, not having CWDT - IC is enough to get one shotted by porcupines.

You should never rely on Endurance Charges for elemental resistance because you might get 1 shot before your charges are up. And if you are a Juggernaut, you will always have Endurance Charges even if you use Immortal Call.

Ahh ok I get that. I really wanna make my Jugg use armour and need a sensible excuse to not use IC. My current Jugg uses one Doedre's Elixier upon entering a map and then has max endurance charges due to receiving a hit + Unflinching. If I am not squishy and don't use IC, I can now go for 50% ele resist and 7 endurance charges will cap my resists. Since I am a totem build I can keep porcupines at a distance where they don't one-shot me (It's not the safest build, but hey, it wasn't supposed to be^^). If I had IC, I would drop to 50-60% ele resis after proccing IC which would result in 100% more ele damage taken for 1-3 seconds, which I try to avoid, thus no IC.
I think in this convoluted case I constructed, I actually can rely on endurance charge resists and have a "good" reason to not use IC. Unless I have missed something... did I miss something... oh I'm sure I did... :/

Elemental weakness and the alike would murder your resists ;)