Standard Pvp post-Mortem and how to save it in league (Imo)

Standard pvp is dead, league pvp on perfusion.

1: Pvp landscape (state of pvp, can skip to 3 for those knowing).


Since 2.0 and the power-creep of the ascendancy classes the pvp population is continuously declining.

It was already small but the pvp community love challenges and the hardcore side of the game. We were still trying to adapt to each changes from item nerf to the power creep inflation.
The near future was grim and there was not a lot of hope after years of neglect and lack of balance, reducing the community further.


The 3.0 start of era seen a revival of hope!

We got someone at GGG finally engaging with us and asking our advice,we got a feedback thread to post in and a dev to listen to us.

From that we got few pretty good changes! We got nerf on some very needed broken skills (EA), items (Zerphi), mechanics (flask and block) and the minimap change as well and new arenas.

Hope was high and the community started to create plan for Ethical pvp tournaments.
Few very broken skills still needed to be addressed like magma org/fire ball/lightning trap But we had hopes back...

...Sadly 3.5-3.6 hit live realm and it all went to toilet.


Betrayal crafting mods and delve fossil raised the power-creep to another level.

We could now get level 30 gem bow-cast items, level 0 casters bow having mods that would put to shame old HLD mirrored gear. LLD is in the toilet, hld is a joke.
Minimum frenzy, endurance and power charges, new ES mods, life mods...


... and Then synthesis came.
INSANE power creep! 1000+ es chest possible, 600 es helm flooding high the end market to be mirrored. HOWA gear giving 20+k es with millions of dps permitting players to delve until 7000+.

At the same time we still can t access leo in our Hideout, LLD pvp only players can t even join LLd sarn!

In HLD we need to go back from Oriath were party are played to sarn just to verify if there are even players in the arena... Boring/ no use.







2: The result of power creep:

-Standard...

Those two power creep leagues ( Delve-betrayal-synthesis) killed the last of standard pvp.
No one is playing! Why would they when someone with 30k es and 4 millions dps appear in the empty arena?

Why would pvpers play when at the same time new skills and support (unleash for example) brought back to broken a meta that seemed to heal few months ago?


-League pvp got the worst of it and the effect will be visible next leagues.
Delve-betrayal-Synthesis crafting pushed the power creep level of standard league into the temporary league format.

Items in leagues are now better than legacy standard ones. This result in a broken pvp even in leagues.

1100 es chest to mirror in league with aura increased effect? 600 es helm with -res nearby or %increased intelligence/strength implicit?

This is true for HLD and LLD.
LLD gear is a joke! Every league you seem to forget Ilevel mods and give insane mods to level 28 items.



3: What to change

GGG decided it seems to each league raise the bar of power creep and speed meta.

PVP in poe is a game of min-maxer and power hungry. Casual will try it but the real pvp players will have insane items some will have min-maxed setup in league too.

To save league pvp from the same fate of std pvp you need some drastic changes not only from a micro balance of skil perspective but also a general revision of the system. Maybe PVP and PVE must have a total separation of systems.

This is my opinion and some will surely disagree but I think it make sense.



- You need to cap life/es regen in PVP.

Example of Occultist giving too much ES and regen. 20 000 es Hand of wisdom and action occultist with 7-10k es regen and 1 shoot pvp damage and this is in league.

Cap life/es regen! With each league power creep it will only get worse.

Increasing power creep each league mean balancing skills or mechanism (block/frost bomb) is useless with all those new mods. Frost bomb is too static to counter builds having so much movement speed or aoe/porj distance.

Frost bomb is useless VS players using ground dots like those cold snap and vortex abusers.

Just cap it to a still strong but reasonable level once entering a pvp area. Something like 5k max regen is enough to be tanky but not immortal.


Damage need to stick in pvp games.

-You need to cap elemental penetration.

Fossil items with dual-triple penetrate X% of elemental damage, fossil items and betrayal craft with - res. This is too much even in league now. You get 100% penetration without a problem.
Cap it at 50% like some of us already suggested. Every league since delve you add penetration mods. At some point better cap it than trying to race balance behind it.


- Nerf broken new skills right away.

You don t need to be a genius to see right away unleash would be broken in pvp. Why this is not considered internally right away ? We need to wait 1-2 league before seeing such obvious thing be changed and at that point everyone quit already.
Nerf new support and skill before the live version is out!

You guys know that giving a +33 gem items dots will be bonker. It is a "crime" not to nerf those dots before league start knowing you will power-creep the game with such items.


-Dot need new formula or give total immunity!

Each time a new dot skill is live it seems to have 0 t-value on it or the power creep is so strong (+33 socket gems items) that even with T-value it is still too strong.

You nerf scorching ray since 2-3 league but each time your co-workers add new support or mods rendering the pvp nerf useless.

Just make all dots only be circumstantial dps or give immunity to all of them for fairness.

After all you nerfed bleed to make it useless (bleed immunity items) you gave chaos a total immunity with ES, You also gave total immunity to poison and ignite.
Why ho why there are no immunity to SR degen or cold dots?

Some nasty build using indigon or occultist will poop ground dots all over the arena with increased duration.

Indigon players just need to refresh the dps spending mana with curse or other alt spells. Occultist can just temp chain your ass on the ground until you degen to death.

Just give us items with immunity to every dots already or put a 20% less damage over time taken on some body armor (armor based so ES tanks can t abuse it too much) or give us back the mod on the crafting bench.
You told melee : fuck bleed and poison but keep buffing spell SR/chaos dots/cold dots. That or just nerf to oblivious degen damage.



sarn arena


- Give Weylam Roth or another NPC in oriath the option to access the arena and Give this option to an NPC we can buy in the HO/ put the option in the social menu.

Sarn is empty not only because pvp is broken or there are no insensitive to pvp but also let s be honnest
because POE players are lazy. When I am in oriath searching for rota or pub I don t want to miss an opportunity because I zoned out to sarn to verify if there are a few player in sarn. Same in my Hideout when I am mapping and need
a break I don t want to zone out in sarn.

Give us an option to go to sarn while in hideout please, pretty please.
Also Once we go out of sarn please let us zone back to HO. High level dueling use builds that will maps so why having to always
spawn back in sarn and have then we have to load oriath? Just zone us in HO once you go out of sarn arena. In past sarn was linked to leo so it made sense to go back there but now leo is not there. No one is trying sarn pvp at
level 60 or is pushed to go look the arena.





Counter argument:

I know some will not agree with me about introducing caps to pvp. Players in general are not willing to be restricted when we ask their opinion. The more freedom even if unnecessary the better for them.
There is the argument also that adding cap would reduce the insensitive for min-maxer to grind.

I disagree about the min-maxer argument. I believe that you can boost and min-max your damage high enough without the need for having 100% elemental penetration.

Actually having to push your dps high without that much penetration would encourage min-maxer to min-mnax even further.

It might make gearing for pvp a little more expensive BUT power creep each league will anyway make it easier over time.


I also believe a cap to regen would not kill tank builds. There are other things they ll have to invest instead like avoidance. Right ow they just need to be stacking es regen/rate to absurd level.







: other things to consider

-insensitive to pvp.

I know no pve player want to feel pushed to pvp but pvp players also don t have much insensitive to wait for someone to connect to a duel.

Those are my own idea, could be bad or good I just throw it here.

1 vs 1 / 2 vs 2 /ctf pvp:

"the orb of the victor"


My idea about it is to give a bonus useless item to each league top 5 ranked players.

I imagine an orb called "orb of the victors" that would be given like the lab jewel at each season reset after finishing in the 5 top rank.

The orb would just give when applied to an item and apply the account name on it.

It would probably be something crafter would love to give their items an unique name no one could get.

Example: On newly crafted "vortex hunger" I apply my orb of the victor and it is now called " Lolozori s ambition"

Mullaxull apply it to a new crafted 2h sword and it become "Mullaxull Paradise" and Rupenus applie it on his Mirror worthy bow and it become "Rupenus s Dream"

This is my own idea of a fun item that would give 0 benefit for players in pve but would make them search and fight to get those orbs.


Sarn arena:

Give players who enter arena and kill 5 other players once a day a temporary small cosmetic bonus.
blood aura/gore effect/blood footprints/character size.


Finally and to conclude,

Maybe My ideas about balance are wrong/not appropriate but something is sure:

With every league power-creep inflation just nerfing few skills won t work.

GGG need to separate pve from pvp completely and apply very different system for pvp because Item power is out of control even in league.

Thanks for your consideration.