Raider single target: Is Frenzy just a charge generator?
|
Hi,
recently I've been going over all my builds, seeing what I can realistically improve in terms of skill setup and tree allocation after having gained a bit more experience on other builds (don't laugh at my gear, I'm mostly self-found). Then I got to my Raider (PoB link in the spoiler below, or you can check out my profile...don't mind the low level gems in some slots, she received some changes very recently).
Spoiler
eNrNXG1zm7q2_rz9K5jM7Pult4kEQkBves44r_XeeaudpO3-khFI2DQYXMBJ3Tvnv58lATbYYJM2-9zbzrQOrCVpvT9LknP4z-_TUHsSSRrE0fs9vI_2NBF5MQ-i8fu9u9uzt_beP__RO7xh2eTaP5oHoXzzj95vh-qzFoonEb7fs809LWPJWGT35VDGAwzlsogH2VWcTBlQXcWRKJ9disQLQpGm5WMvZGl6xabi_d6QRWOR7Gks9UTEj6svAi5fTFkQjWLvUWTnSTyfwbr3tKdAPF_GHKgGlzfXw9tyouNkLsq5Yd2_Hd6EbCGSUcYyLYV_3u_1QXw2FidsCv_CQCycwyiGg-m-bRomNfcOmhlHMyH4ksHaJ4S-AulNIk59X3hZ8CSOExBgwiJvtS5s7du4jfdn6C_nYRbMwkAqtuDR93Gr0B82Z0Cojfg2zlh4cjNajQxaJfu2_Jc4zna2OFuytU7wKcgmN3GQxtHLZ-kngl37ua6HjAfzdCUSaWO6ZBE7jtMOSxtlK4Vix2gjG4pvNUqjdeoT8X3lnbq1ZcAqJTZbrT-Issq8-pYB65StA14E_sotTETJlnDw3knqQeRVlORsG_guSkQqkqdKHG2bos5yA-lGVIVo91nJOBRjEa2IbbJP0NaZLoTwJueQloYsE1Wl2vtmu2alM62SAqZb1SWJq-pC20ZtUJZhdmNYVxUEkm3r1MYmJXp72pKDrKlN3986ZbPOdN3cx4huTw21eXRE91uNcyWyTYO-1fG-47TOcRqJZLwYTQIRrtTnbLdOlaeTlaoM9dV1YmlWXjvrE5NluUPWUsLk1FU5dLPd30QoBLBwsVYYXpHjJom_ypIYvoytn0zjeSW5WpaxPSflDFXBid26pskiDTzwRgUchoLPYYEVHZut6WxZ3y_jJzGFYFPwANDLaqX7uDXLHoUAfdY0YBhbxArDRpZWpWUZ8x5PYj7urGc1yYs4zoIEVJYGlUpqtWaL41jGSEfii2A8ySJAqd2Hn7A4XaN-a9DdS78G5HjMZitf2S3AOovTUYx1vvZiUZFmnak9vOJnoJxIBJ--jPqSfd_tUWeJiH4sOo9fI69OYLdnRj5PpON1nmOdY1OOwwPV4shPg-ksTjINGpGs73nxPMo-sHQC9saO7uicOy7yPIp10xBQxYnrQTQzS1i2ZyIfeVDjJauciXmZSHJm3fB9YrmYcsNxbUhqBqHI9KnAJhJIt0zOhSWc3KcOj1nopUqUQTSbZ1qkGqL0MQjDh2g-dSV6z_-X3dDBBuU0SL0Hd-77skfaAyUkqsM7PTs7Pb4d3J8WLCOhcpjmxWHIZqng7_eiINzTAvgwkpONIHV7WQdq6BOKjmo3rYT6HeZXPdRuOtnUdFtgkaw6in67mAnpQWkHhqOw21rz3qUD4WAcBVknXQqPLTrQLQFEB9pLcJ68ZnWRHepHErjzTHQhVi1DhxVIpLybrIbcOqw0hwcdxi3g027Koox0sJMKjlv2KLpa4ET4Atw1LbJTmREOlXOmGhc-g1b-XEw_zlkYZIuCffX8It-sUU9TSGjwKD1aQOP8fi9L5sX2iBpN7bD0FURRP6u51DZLyFw5htwlYm4o16hYtTSMJTSJY3CRdW7JKMf-7RBmLLeMoMUuxjgPY5eFuBxpLKYDKbHIGGcZOxhksMwDudYDNRp8umcsHAr2JOpD6IVs30r5dQQLkzw3LMnU8tVPcvjKEEuKlZRrwskUKuFhzqblfAebIlk_IdJ8NstNofZhZF5-3CWWWZGj4G9gblh9laph-c4vLV9i-jok3iEGahCjfZAmcSS1VpJr1XJTF8z-FcGOknmmVvxycTZYG4RY0eRZIHfynaGo5t4ejJ8Em0E6wQ3xKLlfx_5FREKDEfPhbptjvaKlDaYm9UgabdhiWONXDHs8D0MAQaMuIddg3Eb2BgkKOm3UGnf2z-t9NJ9OoVH3xHkcimmxyMsggjqyTL3dJKswrfJgReb6PK3S5oQaUGqbSypfC74c6bWd_ijmC61s-7v5vfVrhegkngNvJy-Slq5VoCbetqqT076yG63SNwumP5GvK1xNCVq-3lwp_c-USfQ3lclfyjmq47iN8_7g5Tmnib0p5yg6LYu1SiPyiqnz_1exf8X08UGEU5H9Jyrmp0mQyLpwFELrn-7QnlPRXjNjg8ZKQq2gPHjNzHeSCMaPWBTJjYftSa9q-pt5ItJMiLDO2rB6NYFWkL02WD1jsIgk3-h8ueM2cTdIkJNpOV366hn7DP4L_MXLe4U1xqaVFxR_EyLVu8aX8fP-OQCckQCwhsWFL7BwE1uDgkoyTdG9amDdiukMQqQ8feq88ka-hqUXdFp1k-QV6xv4_HVU3dt4eY1rG6KpzgGt9jwRUVEPtOp-yuv5LSz-SaSdq4L5cg1KhNeXmztZwsJPLPHAOv4LdLeVvw1RLhm0JcfBq9a484R5LwEGNfqGVefv_4-t-wvd2k3MvIlI0kuW7Co7Ep-tqmYDX4N6CrL_giSb_k-qKerXrpyAJdLZREx_ou5ssDa2-yVNi5VTaOw8eckLFvcO43ejCCLeDTLx31o_TVmaBtFS_iBr2Iz82_yiRaudnf808gC1Z_I4-NpXp3-fILHJwwyyRWHreio-qY3h2wQQM8tXrohxscULP-TrvxteqA-_TbJslr47OHh-ft6fsWwS--J7EIp9L54ezKRWn8RbtdK3GQx60Ic_R_3BUf8Dxn8-6vc_joZXfcHvHqYfkrMFO0_1ESjl8svjX9cfL67Dpz-M9O4hdoJk8HDkfovvHz6P_7r_cp-5J8nkNpidXAqOBs6N-eX77P5h_M25evyMHk6f3s4DfOV8u2Ln0_lHy0iymx_Wze1fg-NTQa7pFbOjH258TvU_rz_cZoMH92PCAwePxdV45Cz09PR-cOnQoUFms0_3V2d-f3AR3X5ns2v-bTJFz-z4VP_87fTpm3DM2ezbxZdrbM_mV9nd12xsDf76Mjr3Fz--OKN0vOizzxcxiR_-eP5szn4cu3_Et0_hxeTy4fvF9696_6-v2dXbr591dmb-2T8aof7n5Pbs-cf19B4ZXz_yo_Rr_2RuP97hx6nzWczt90r5B6X2D_O7jGluiuInLYq5kH5hORTcBDxcRWdxoLlJZugWNTrQ6TaxzC50FDu0y7yUGqQLHSF2ZX1667zYsbuMR6ht6x3oKCYy4-2kMwnWrS7jIcuo6A-3jmdip4vdiG1Ru4s9iIM7iWt3MgdI28ldqG508j6DGrgTnWN3sYaBqd3Jm6mlN3gzZMFVSMEPecI7PJAZUX64ijOh3smH5Q8qX94H4llLhcRDoyyRteFHHE-_5Kl6Ej9_ECy7ZLMikct3F8teRb6XB8Qnge-LRJ3VlQlbEn4u13eoKmuRmeXnkchPp-apGAkvjnjeKKnHZbFRTOossDhMGzIoDYt32t3V4OPdae9mPg7CIM1690ES8IBF2h_iWYS9uyj4Nhfa4OSdRi2LOj5x5EU-3-CUUYyQ7pvCEsRwPGIjZriIIYdbFJsE4gaZNpAYliuY6-KeWoKS951mol5-afaddiFvUPQG01kYeEEGD1AP_64FkQctfCq4VpyeakOWye2IGTTFhnYivkN3DBJo_TCMPZYBYSBp5Jh1_uOQPa_v_Lx8lMYNJO05yCbaXcSSKZAUrXqnsaVfSX3UbaM32uZMJPLqGiCSiPeOJRLINq3jc8f0PCJcwYWPkUt1kzMMhgELIdfVmcN1xIRHTN0kPjGF67rEZ8yyONFtwWvWoXSbdd5gW-4NDqJMhGEwlp7aW0nrJ_FUu8mLfrqSWAtS7TZhUerHSlnrAzQrxKgr5LJ_Pjju3YhkJjIAQdrHeQAKD8In0PgZYL9HLfY1GWNVzTgCu4LohJuW62PLZcLwiIVcz0eMmMyjLkVYgFpsl3qmYL5wfQ5p1XCIAZqhNc2QXnE8LhWhng3Ft3eaUdeQbtYcUN0R0oYQm7DQBZBO55FUFejgDJLGD4BZkSSTCJXP5dWaQhqhbk30hmIqseQmMUQFBH2L7kijM50ArE_YQruHgeMk7Z0kbBxHKfi00NT5e1V1not9F5ABEdxxfYZswWzLs8CpPBN0hnTwIVAn5gYTwrUIxD785zMD247tk3rIW9ZKdzrqFSn2nXb-dij_VrRJzbo6qVVVZ348o7RQpIbeGx0oQJvLW29afpFCbmP3arYor0xq6jqQCtX8vlhhJXBuOdAl-x5M59P6u7RH0O9aIm9qAmvtlXYyT5i8fqFMX5Ko5ZQRr_-uect9dXXZsUgY2gcQs2ElzVY1G60KKWaeiJ7qy2W-qxlR95hBhcMd5DNuGw44uiC2boCbW5DMDcqYQSikAe5yatiuJXxhWo6DHMMmzK4bkbYZEf5WTUirJsRSegjNZfosJC-yqLpMBPpiqSYv9PSwbldttpZ0e33OU5hc6tEwNt5iveYs-UTK2j28zRWeJzLH3kzAo6Jx70s818bQuZUPNEhbGkZQ22WBTfPIk8-ZppSu2qYWk9FGkx1B7ltIpWQTiDxYUtY7m0NMf1okUxWOVRsSy7Eo4rrlmVwQ4nILQ-oiPuR5HxGi657wGPOQz33P8Rg3iKtT7mOKPMdx1rI7xGWjDYd5INbsSOhaZbbszVjsGbUAnRbBo2z5BhMVmgxEOw2VwtUdmDI8056Jqsx54pOsy4SpQWiJ3un3LGHaOE7aIsOqq3nYH0K2A-CknSfBrHcbz9gPbShtW9WrybFn2YbtGLqnYyp0w9Rt17QJ1EzmWkxQ3yGeD1mPOxxjW7cpcoXvGD4hhKN6bBgVxZmkHgBvZGJoS1HKo7HyaEw1eUO4DA14UsCK3htiyB9L7eaX1YqNWFAz3qHmN7qjKORl4urc_-slzAdw8q83Bq2Or6zXrGm70aEBuyaPcfSVlTsoUIh5bxSEjyLSPsQxr8EVZkPrx7nwTOxTxBzbwAyci-m2z6kJNUX4OvMs0wEfxlwg2_Cgrti6wwTkKaeueNJeWc7rlQXV3dmsJPQS0sn9YAjvi_i58GDTVCm7RDg9jFozTL3w59s2mtyEURkqP3zX8uPVHsZbYC4YFKENc-B6rBTjrwHkDQGajeg0QavjiZiCY5QWHGWBKy-OrsAVGHkeeZO1MLIIN3yKLQfZDKzEdB1B0DhgLd_i3DWYSRh3iW36Qkccwsk1fGQhh-lQljzbXQ-jRoyF1yLqGLQArRdk4NE0lmoN4zmXgt8BJNKNlWGL6i2hEq-BL3W6LVW2DXQtibaCLYza0JZI07jU5zEkS1mjjlgSS90N4zmgmCKEK_pEiPrEsn3bxwILz_aRgChxuW4CDIOmC5pvXWeQu1wEGBZquc9dGzSNPKZzU4i6Ps22dH9Ui431jIX1mrOpL4GsQKxBf9eq9wTiPAbCVWuk6mnVD_Um590o38jcCfbQrlRHNtaWc60vuA5DAl9bQNmfsCeRv4f5ayKB8DBZuFCSeNuEbxqqPtlyrBZ_am7Tl_vVvcbt6poP2QjwnEkNwgwd2xByyGXEoz7nuk8ADGKLEcNi3HccE2PwLU83kCQCPGiTNdiH2nzoHLLsUdWL7LoXLcvLbRKMxwByj-PpFMypkBcklBwjq5wlNZaBfBDRaykTEh_dliuptZEqW1FgA9Kujd33PAhSb1Hdb6iT451dQANTuTmgXILW_Ce_xV8EDMuWcqw1Hy2Oorehy6wElyfgatCMJz0oyE8LTb6q9ccOQ47PCGQTw2E2YEkPco3HXHgKjmEIE7sOIE3k2yanhDkU-kHP1BGFBsG3cTsG0tE6BlIIA2wqonE26ZYQvpReYVTUnoPBIpTUjsOax0ASMMiGU7zBxo7UcSVY4i4kuJoGsrYAEhtEWTANuNzAabOB0QA9P8VCu2JB2Lt9jt-OsjgSG-jTFpQZnqcLSPeYYupanEDaJ6bjUIdRbiCEmYkhgA3D5K7ucsOkmDkWMQT3kb_emVVg-1oUvsFUCa6gpdo_qKNAUJezBVySTWT4hpjVZ_IbFstZ2tW7Aps6WS2ogkZbFEyawMqIZTLepDsAMotgKtU2LLHKIIGogsYsqqVFguTeBIPqCsgT4CbjFoc66wvonAzp5z63JdZHtu342DORqRsOh76ZGlwXVn2fzGqGKusbGHXY1p_K74CVpRS8yqiAlXrTY9GGYtiEVlr0ZjY45lkssRJLZ73jWJ7e96fzUNQyAojtWsLCvuO64Gy2bdqeQMim1DdN23UJJgYHPO55XHBoQx2TIezZiFiWD72pvg4_KtXBXNsW2MdlrzcW4HPKmjJ55n02ZAyjljHeGPamJ1Lc4InmznYod0D1fcfGfkg1ZcrxoTNb3_it9GUtqqdNLtsPvTrC_oPxiseexGpToWoLl1kUI5_JcyjXQY5JqY6wS4TjcMSoh7jtIUGgqDOuuyZmwlW4UCJDbnp2a6NU9VfdqvtrFSTnXx3bDpHnSVRByPUmqKCt-vhys6xFdVZjtAuRyb5DOwmeAkim9Vj_xBK-3ttTRISJhGAmxC1GlucRSycu8bhncd_C4MCuaxiuwKZt6cwSDjKJxwwTtIkZ3dZitneUlK7k3Aj0QSSdLFvbClbedDxPUlDlNjUXJE19yCiMy69qlvcOlkeM5fc5KzSr73aUVOYmUb6GyjHa8kvDFaI8eVRoWgeqTLb8_SgbRJXDOKONpnJsi61W2apUaJOqdtG_JKRtU1aORJ1NGlnWq_NZTdOpb7aVFKRlkKqOGuQvrxeXNHbDRADuKoOUvzukOCZsPSKsngx2caZu3tRol9Ezm2l9dwH9C4C1_Dy24SR-XagXsrQ6b5sXvHD8Nr_v5vidFYO7SLkZNDu112nchkBrcMcXKq6UVpPidiLFL1x8ewLonAE6pYBOa-2qjZ9iwx2U2JKcNrPTC5eQZ4aXBnJ7vOGfmW4HU7OD4p8zCd4lWlOGb7TaTwR6W3XoPL7eRVMblWW3l-DdmbuhHB0U9UjdqlHXWdQvqYgjPxgDxeHB-i8M_DcaU4RZ
Originally she was just Reaving everything and relying on Ancestral Warchief to help with single target, but having had the chance to compare her to my other builds, her single target was just woeful without a dedicated skill (well, the clear wasn't godly either but that's not the point here). I therefore decided to swap out my Ancestral Warchief 4L to just a 1L Warchief for the more phys damage bonus, make my Reave a 4L instead of a 5L and use my 5L for a dedicated single target skill instead. Seeing as I was a Raider running around with 8 frenzy charges all the time, I thought Frenzy would be an obvious choice, given the benefits it receives from having a bunch of charges. So I opened up PoB, started figuring out which gems support it best, etc. etc. Then I went and tested it out on live, started to gather a handful of levels on the Frenzy attack, and it didn't seem to be that dramatically better than Reave considering the link number difference. I shrugged, thinking it's going to take over as it levels, or maybe it's the quality making the difference, and exited out. A few moments later it occurred to me to compare it to another dedicated single target skill I had good experience with on another build: Double Strike. I opened up PoB, set up all the configurations (frenzy charges, maim, intimidate, onslaught etc.) and Double Strike came up WAY ahead, even without Bleeding enabled. I had no source of bleeding by default, so I threw away one of the more multipliers on my gems to slot in chance to bleed, thinking it would bring down Double Strike a bunch and make Frenzy the better choice. Nope. Double Strike, even without a 4th more multiplier gem still came off way ahead of Frenzy in DPS. With all gems at 20 and main attack at 20 % quality, Frenzy with 8 charges and maim enabled, supported by Maim, Multistrike, Ruthless and Melee Phys does 59k dps according to my gear setup in PoB, where Double Strike with Chance to Bleed instead of Ruthless does 97k. Even with Double Strike being supported by Chance to Bleed but target bleeding disabled in PoB, Frenzy is STILL lower in dps (59k Frenzy, 63k Double Strike). That's not to mention Frenzy's exorbitant mana cost that would prevent me from running Dread Banner due to an insufficient mana cushion for leeching. What the hell is the point of Frenzy then? If even a character that runs around with constant 8 frenzy charges cannot squeeze out a decent bit of damage out of the skill, what is the skill for? Is the skill only really any good for charge generation for characters that can't run Blood Rage/want to have guaranteed charges against bosses? Or maybe for phys bow builds? Cause I'm confused. Has anyone found a case where Frenzy just outperforms everything in melee phys DPS? Or is it that Double Strike is just straight up OP? Or are the PoB numbers wrong and not accounting for some bonuses Frenzy is getting? Just...what the heck? Last edited by lMarcusl on Jan 27, 2019, 8:40:36 PM Last bumped on Jan 29, 2019, 3:25:28 PM
| |
|
2 3 years ago, frenzy was indeed an option for single target. Particularly when raider still did not have permanent frenzy charge generation against bosses.
But as like puncture, blast rain and several outdated skills, the skill is extremely outdated in term of damage and the only main use for frenzy left is charge genereation You are right :'( |
|
|
Thanks for the confirmation :) Good to know I'm not missing the point here, cause I've seen some older threads of people claiming that Frenzy was giving them 30 % more damage output or so than skills like Double Strike at 7+ frenzy charges, which I just couldn't explain.
It's a real shame, would have loved to have a reason to finally use that skill or any other niche ability for that matter instead of the cookie cutter Double Strike that I'm already using elsewhere. Seems to me, considering the amount of skills in the game, the actually viable options are quite limited (and by viable I don't mean "does 10 % more damage than the rest of the pool", but "doubles the damage of whatever skill you foolishly thought of using"). Last edited by lMarcusl on Jan 29, 2019, 3:28:59 PM
|
