3.3.0 reworked skills PvP balance suggestions

So, we currently have:

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• PvP Balance

In light of the extensive skill balance changes, PvP balance is still ongoing. We have PvP balance changes coming, and we'll add these notes when we have them.

Also Glacial cascade with remote mine and fireballs and flame blast need PvP value....

shallow.

pvp balance isn't only about throwing some numbers about what damage should be reduced by what number.

it would be way better if you would't assert yourself as some sort of expert who GGG should take serious also. either people should choose you or you should fortify your poins with arguments so well that no one can prove them wrong.

If you make a point, T value should be x 4 or whateer, try to support it with some arguments, that'd be great.

Also compared to 1 day ago, the damage reductions that you were recommending changed dramatically. You seem like you know what you want, but you don't know why you want, and how it should be done.

for example, barrage "Deals (40-47.6)% of Base Damage" and barrage attacks have on average 8 arrows per volley. As default It deals barely more damage per volley than burning arrow(%180 base damage). In a game where burning arrow exists(also burning arrow has it' own conversion too so in practice it's theoretical base damage buff is more than 180%) barrage's T value shouldn't be more than 2.(8 arrows deal almost 2 burning arrow damage) Barrage also requires you to initiate like a melee char, that's also should be considered. However, we can all agree that barrage can stack 11+ arrows per volley and this T value x 2 would reward 2000ex+ builds. So i'd propose T value to be 3.

Even though there are flaws in such train of thought, if somebody isn't formulating their suggestions / recommendationss balance like that, taking them serious is completely wrong for the game and for the whole community.

we don't really need a next greendude, who confuses GGG's mind like he did before. seriously. they are confused about everything already.

"

Rupenus wrote:

 

Thank you for posting you your concerns.

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Also compared to 1 day ago, the damage reductions that you were recommending changed dramatically.

T divided by 2, 50% less damage in pvp and T divided by 8 or 70% less damage in pvp isn't a change, please read carefully, these suggestions are exclusive. (T/2 * 0.5) is very close to (T/8) but affect all damage range not just the highest roll, while 70% damage nerf is a plain reduction that would affect whole damage range without minimum damage normalization (so it would affect LLD in the same way as HLD)

I remember what builds you've used before, I can guess what build you'll use if GGG finally properly balance Kinetic Blast and LA, I'd say I 'know you' as a poe pvp player and therefore please excuse me, but I can't take your posts seriously.

If you need any clarification — feel free to ask, if you want to keep blatantly try to discredit my suggestions please don't expect any answer.

lol ....

unfortunately buff, there are 2 common strategies to win a debate when you are out of arguments,

one is diminishing the meaning your "opponents" argument until a point that you can easily manifacture a counter argument and save your ego and position. this is called reductio ad absurdum, that's what you've done at first post.

Second, when you run out of arguments and give valid points to make a comeback, you attack to the pointer instead of the direction, which means you completely or to some degree ignore your opponents point and attack to his/her personality. That's called Argumentum Ad Hominem. And your second post finishes with such glorious example of it.(i know who you are... bla bla)

Unfortunately you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and try to win arguments right now.

KB has been buffed even more in this patch, yet that is one of the few tools that helps you to handle zerphi + leg kaoms builds.(that doesnt mean they should stay as they are) Fireball and magma orb are completely overpowered right now also. However, It's like a double edged sword, if you'll nerf KB or others too much, only zerphi will stay rampant; if you nerf zerphi anything outside of offscreen are going to be obsolete. If you destroy one side of a polarity(one of them is tank vs offscreen) leaving the other side without counters gonna hurt pvp even more. tempest shield & aegis builds were simply getting 1# in sarn arena for staying at the middle of arena.
EA had absoulely no counters and EA players were simply shit talking only, preaching about how skill is important in pvp and everybody else outside of them lack skill and that's what brings the difference between good and bad. (power corrupts absolute power absolutely corrupts) That also happened during HoT build times, until we found ways to deal with them, sarn arena was all about name calling and shit talking. Only 3 people were joining sarn arena. E This is what happens when a build has no opposite polarity that balances it. Your join date looks like 2016, this all happened before 2016(except HoT), we sort of had this trend continue throughout 2016 too. (spark wasn't really a problem in 1v1 areas they had their counters) Unfortunately the way you approach to the problem is simply to nerf everything that has countered your builds since you started pvp, but this is a very superficial way to take and deal with problems.

As i stated before my pvp career is all about finding ways to counter EA or zerphi. I tried playing with legit skills too, but in the end you just get mocked by some EA noobs and name called. And that is about it.

So in case of a completely pvp overhaul, i totally welcome a possible nerf to KB or LA, generally to offscreen builds.. but as i said it should be a complete overhaul addressing all the issuess current pvp has. one sides critics gonna destroy pvp even more than what it is right now.

"

Unfortunately the way you approach to the problem is simply to nerf everything that has countered your builds since you started pvp, but this is a very superficial way to take and deal with problems.

You haven't offered any real solutions though. You've just gone on tangents nobody understands and that go nowhere. What are your solutions, other than to over reasons why things should remain how they are?

"

Rupenus wrote:

shallow.

pvp balance isn't only about throwing some numbers about what damage should be reduced by what number.

it would be way better if you would't assert yourself as some sort of expert who GGG should take serious also. either people should choose you or you should fortify your poins with arguments so well that no one can prove them wrong.

If you make a point, T value should be x 4 or whateer, try to support it with some arguments, that'd be great.

Also compared to 1 day ago, the damage reductions that you were recommending changed dramatically. You seem like you know what you want, but you don't know why you want, and how it should be done.

for example, barrage "Deals (40-47.6)% of Base Damage" and barrage attacks have on average 8 arrows per volley. As default It deals barely more damage per volley than burning arrow(%180 base damage). In a game where burning arrow exists(also burning arrow has it' own conversion too so in practice it's theoretical base damage buff is more than 180%) barrage's T value shouldn't be more than 2.(8 arrows deal almost 2 burning arrow damage) Barrage also requires you to initiate like a melee char, that's also should be considered. However, we can all agree that barrage can stack 11+ arrows per volley and this T value x 2 would reward 2000ex+ builds. So i'd propose T value to be 3.

Even though there are flaws in such train of thought, if somebody isn't formulating their suggestions / recommendationss balance like that, taking them serious is completely wrong for the game and for the whole community.

we don't really need a next greendude, who confuses GGG's mind like he did before. seriously. they are confused about everything already.

Wroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

Barrage is several times stronger then burning arrow, don't pretend those base values matter. The mechanics behind the skill greatly amplify how strong a skill performs, just look at any single target skill vs an aoe one vs a multiple projectile one vs one that does both aoe and multiple hits. The base values are 2-4x that of the latter and they are still 2-4x weaker per hit.

You're dealing with apples, oranges, retarded cross breed fruit and trying to justify why A needs to be strong because B is. Completely ignoring in between except the fact you know you had to play ranged because you sucked at any distance but off screen and why was that? BECAUSE FUCKING MELEE RANGE IS SHIT, its where everyone gets GIANT FUCKING DAMAGE (except ironically melee itself 9:10 times) and has GIANT FUCKING DAMAGE AUTOMATED DEFENSES. So what do you balance? The GIANT FUCKING BROKEN DAMAGE or keep justifying why you need it to face other ranged builds?

"

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Unfortunately the way you approach to the problem is simply to nerf everything that has countered your builds since you started pvp, but this is a very superficial way to take and deal with problems.

You haven't offered any real solutions though. You've just gone on tangents nobody understands and that go nowhere. What are your solutions, other than to over reasons why things should remain how they are?

no i didnt, i am obviously not qualified enough for that. these are not easy issues to solve, if i was statistician i'd put my solutions here but i am not. you need statistical methods to deal with such problems and that's what game companies do normally.

@mulla i also mentioned that there are flaws in this train of thought. it was just an example.

there's no perfect balance in ARPGS, if you want balance try dota.

Like i have mentioned, Zerphis is the main cause of how we shaped our builds.

Melee suffers in pvp that is undeniable. ( except for talisman mom trappers ).