Is LL/RF >> jugg RF?

Is LL/RF still king of survability/dmg after the jugg buff?

I compared in path of building the top jugg RF vs top guardian ( HC bestairy) and seems like jugg has more phys dmg reduction but less scorching ray dmg

Is the no chaos dmg from guardian what makes him come top? cuz jug had 0% chaos dmg reduction

anyone? i am thorn between jug or guardian for this league

what makes it higher ceiling? is it more dmg or higher survability? and if so what makes it have higher survability?>

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Camaron wrote:

Is LL/RF still king of survability/dmg after the jugg buff?

I compared in path of building the top jugg RF vs top guardian ( HC bestairy) and seems like jugg has more phys dmg reduction but less scorching ray dmg

Is the no chaos dmg from guardian what makes him come top? cuz jug had 0% chaos dmg reduction

An RF juggernaut will typically end up with 8k-10k effective life with MoM. A proper LL RF Guardian has 20k-22k EHP in non-standard.

It's not even a fair comparison between the two. One literally has double the health of the other one at the highest level of the game with amazing gear.

1. EHP would imply you go MoM, which you do not, since you want to run as many auras as possible due to Guardian giving ES/Armor for reserved mana/life
2. 20k+ is not possible. It barely was with old ES values. Shavs got nerfed, ES overall got nerfed. 12K is a good value and everything above that is already considered realy high (minmax gear level)
3. Shavs is cheaper than Kaoms Heart and much of the ES gear is aswell, since you do not share gear with as many builds as life gear does. OVerall I'd say LLRF is cheaper to start. Solaris Lorica until you have Shavs, Rise Of The Phoenix and some gear for a few chaos. Works fine.
4. LLRF has potentially more dmg since you can run a Scorching Ray setup in your chest and going LL means Pain Attunement gives 30% more dmg. This almost adds the same damage on top of RF.
5. Lets say you have 10k Es and 10k Hp to compare (def wise). RF burns 90% life and 40% ES - which of both you think is easier to sunstain/ get enough reg on?

I barely come across any life RF at all anymore, since it's much easier and stronger to go LLRF.

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1. EHP would imply you go MoM, which you do not, since you want to run as many auras as possible due to Guardian giving ES/Armor for reserved mana/life

I'm just going to cough this up to someone being slightly new, but EHP doesn't imply MoM. It means Effective HP. Your energy shield and HP totals combined. You don't use MoM with EHP because MoM doesn't work when you have energy shield.

You are wrong here.

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2. 20k+ is not possible. It barely was with old ES values. Shavs got nerfed, ES overall got nerfed. 12K is a good value and everything above that is already considered realy high (minmax gear level)

You clearly did not play nor even watch any videos back in the day. Literally, just youtube, and you'll see several characters with 25k-30k+ ES running around willy nilly. It was normal for players to get 15-20k ES. 25k+ with great gear and if you had a pair of guardians. You could even achieve 87k ES because of aura stacking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4u7K-q3xwo.

Yeah, it 20k+ not possible my ass. lol. There was a good reason ES was nerf'd.

Even now in standard, its possible to get 25k+ ES, since you have access to legacy ES gear.

And EVEN AFTER the ES Nerf you got builds like this one.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2009597/page/1

In both Abyssal and Harbringer the build above has achieved 17k to 20k ES due to STR stacking. It also had 4k life so 20-24k EHP. It uses Geofri's instead of Shavs for the chest which means no chaos immunity. That's why I said EHP. It doesn't use same aura stacking as LL RF. It needs that 4k hp not to die to chaos damage.

It was for a while the more popular choice then LL RF on the highest level of the RF spectrum since it could both do insane damage and have a ton of life, far more then the LL RF versions because of how much life and es you can stack.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

HP is almost 100% reserved on LLRF. Reserved stuff is no EHP.
I am not going to be any more nitpicky. Assuming you used EHP just to sum up with ES and make it comparable.



"Back in the day" - you were talking about non-standard. So this is simply not possible. Even using a legacy Shav's hardly gets you to that amount.
Playing since Nov'13 as my profile tells you - 3 years before you joined. Thanks for caring or w/e.
Never said it never WAS possible - I even mentioned nerfs, implying it WAS possible. But you were talking about temp leagues.


PS: That video has the old nodes behind CI which gave 15% MORE ES. That's 1.5k on a pool of 10k~ Sorry to bust your bubbles, but I was trying to clarify it for him.
PPS: Guess what I am currently playing and mostly were - hence why I replied here.