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That's a solid list.

Looks good, ya

+Conversion talismans

To clarify what talisman can do, if the opponent deals one element damage type and has:

• 58% penetration, 38% from support gem, 20% for all elements, with a regular talisman of the correct type you take 22.9% less damage
• only 38% from support gem, with a regular talisman of the correct type you take 30.2% less damage
• 58% penetration, 38% from support gem, 20% for all elements, with a greatwolf talisman of the correct type you take 45.8% less damage
• only 38% from support gem, with a greatwolf talisman of the correct type you take 60.3% less damage

These mitigation numbers combined with the fact how rare and unequally available they are for most of the players, they create too big contrast between players who have them and who don't.

Of course they are not as critical problematic items as mentioned in the main post, and also they would mainly be problematic in 1v1s, but in the current meta 1v1 is the least popular form of pvp afaik, but once balance improves, they will become more problematic.

in a world where zerphi does not exist, vinktar + lightning damage leech with good gear provides almost immortality and people would complain about it as they do now for zerphi's.

zerphi is way better cause it doesnt require any hits to be landed on target.

so, +leg vinktar

about conversion talismans,

mathematical calculations are very promising about this. as a habit of being engineer, i appreciate that you put your work to help us understand this mechanics much further markusz,
but for some reason, talismans are not THAT great as mathematical statistics shows.

I'm not using any pen with my LA nowadays.(i cant color my chest) Tee damage doesn't seem very different than what i'm used to to be honest. i did some tests vs talismans once again, yeah, i see 20-30% less damage done but nothing more. (without pen)

Rup, you have 10% from pathfinder, 10% from boots, 6% from Forces of nature and 10% from mine passive. Not having a pen support has much much bigger effect if it would be the only source of your pen.

The number of defense layers in poe pvp is extremely limited. Talismans belong among the strongest of these defense layers (just as markusz briefly showcased). Saying talismans are close to useless or just merely "ok" is just pure ignorance. They are way too good in some scenarios.

Some scenarios, yes. 100 fire talismans are very useful against EA since it is typically noncrit and traditionally relies heavily on the fire pen. But with so many sources of global penetration now, it only helps so much.

Everyone in this game besides a few of us is a pathfinder now, so any "serious" PvP'er is walking around with 20-26% global ele pen at all times.

Let's just assume 20% pen since it lines up with what markusz has already stated previously:

"

58% penetration, 38% from support gem, 20% for all elements, with a greatwolf talisman of the correct type you take 45.8% less damage

As Markusz stated, 45.8% less damage because the pen gem is ignored



49% More damage

One would argue, "But Ahfack, you can't shock! You can't freeze! etc..." Everyone is a fucking pathfinder, you can't do that shit to them anyway.

Hopefully you can at least understand my cynicism regarding the talismans. I have tons of good 50% ones, and they helped before ascendancy. Now, I think they are only useful in specific situations, and are not worth 25% of the price tag they get.

Don't forget that less and more damage multiplier numbers are not comparable like that. With 50% less damage you deal half of your damage, with 50% more you don't deal double but only 1.5x of your damage. To compensate a 50% less damage modifier you have to get a 100% more damage multiplier to get back to the original value. In the mentioned case ele focus would need to be around 90% more to be just as much pure damage as pen gem.

In theory talismans can have the same affixes as normal rare amulets, only difference is the implicit, and for PvP even 50% conversion still beats any other normal amulet implicit, excluding corrupted implicits, so in theory they are BiS rare amulets. The problem as you said is their price, because at the moment they are full legacy. If they would be part of the core game it wouldn't be that much of a problem because they would be more evenly distributed, and not just for the temp league hoarders and the rich players who can afford them.

Ah true, my bad. But you see my point. And yes, the 50's can have some other good stats, but can easily be countered with Ele focus. Now that you've explained the damage breakdown (forgive me...on cold medicine ;)) it's even more clear to me about the 50's. Especially me being someone that prefers to use a unique amulet the majority off the time, I just find myself shelving the 50's after ascendancy.

IMO, pen shouldn't be as high as it is currently.

Could you do the math for 50 talis/pen gem/no Ele focus vs no talis/Ele focus/no pen gem?
<3