Feedback on LLD event organized by ProjectPT/Hege

Overall, I had fun. I was having some PvP nostalgia and this event brought back some good memories. I believe this is the 2nd event ProjectPT and Hege (and LNB) have organized. I'm looking forward to more.

If this is to become a thing and if we want PvP to grow...well let me start by sharing my feedback.



Let me know your feedback or thoughts! I'd also appreciate it if ProjectPt/Hege were made aware of this thread (if it gains any traction), as I don't frequent their streams and I know they were looking for some feedback.

LLD is arguably the most gear dependent pvp format because at such a low level gear quality differences have a more significant impact.

GGG's mistake was making gear crafting for LLD so expensive. Leo's lvl 28 mod costs 2ex (the wiki says the cost is 3 blessed and it's wrong). This mod also essentially requires additional exalts to be slammed onto the item once it's added (and then the Leo mod wiped). What should have happened was making the Leo lvl 28 craft a special implicit or tag added onto an item for a low cost, so players could still use alchs or chaos to roll their level 28 restricted gear.

In almost all cases players will skip the lvl 28 leo mod entirely and instead alt/aug/regal or 0 mod rare and use elreon's multimod for 2ex and fill the item up with crafted mods from all the other masters. We see similar with elreon rings after regaling a high life roll.

Then we have low level 6L via vorici. Instead there should have been level 28 pvp only items with 6L, or an option to 6L something for a lower price and tag it pvp only.

Expecting the general playerbase to spend multiple exalts on lvl 28 gear is a big ask. Instead we just see the ultra wealthy players doing it, and going all-out with things like +1 corrupted 6L demi or rare 6L multimodded demigods golden mantle (obtained via corrupting 5x unique versions into rare and vendoring them for 1 uncorrupted rare, then spending another 4ex making a 0 mod rare). But this is mostly for fun and ego stroking, since LLD participation/competition is so low players are just making these items for kicks (and to completely steamroll anyone who shows up in a premade character).

LLD needed to be accessible to get player participation. It should have been the "even ground" pvp format, and it could have been done easily with proper Leo tailoring and mechanics. GGG spent all these resources on LLD and focused on LLD almost exclusively but failed so hard because they designed gearing for it to be expensive/elitist. Then they threw in pre-made level 28s in poop gear like some masochist joke.

HLD is actually more accessible, and that's where players interested in pvp should go. HLD players can slap on a tabula and spec DPS and do fine. ProjectPT, Hege, and LNB should be doing HLD events, especially CTF.

Edit:
Their rules do make LLD more accessible, i.e.

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lvl 28
no ascendancy
no lab enchants
4link maximum
no quality gems
no corrupted gear

It's just too bad we need to make custom rule sets, rather than having accessible LLD a default option. But as far as promoting pvp goes focusing more on LLD is not good, because once players try normal LLD outside of these community run and restricted events they're not going to have fun (assuming they even find anyone to play with). I hate to see more effort trying to push LLD when it has always been niche with low adoption and as designed will remain that way. For once I'd like to see popular streamers (or GGG) push HLD because the growth potential is there and the active pvp community is there.

I agree with most of what you’ve said. I think the first step should be for hege or PT to make a structured pvp events thread on the pvp forums. I asked Hege if he was up for that but got the feeling he didn’t want to do it. I’ve thought about making a template for it with the basic information for Hege to post, but of course he would have to keep the thread up to date himself..

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1) There was literally no coverage of the event besides ProjectPT's/Hege's streams. I was at least hoping for a Reddit post, maybe with a highlight or two to showcase some LLD action. I feel this is important if we want to expose more people to PvP. Anyone who doesn't regularly visit ProjectPT's/Hege's streams or come to the PvP forums will never know about these events.

Last week I made an LLD build guide for my blast rain doomfletch ranger. Cheap, effective and easy to play, got rank 1 on both events without ever losing a matchup. Also uploaded some clips from yesterday’s event. Blast rain build guide

I don’t know If it’s a problem of visibility, or maybe people just don’t feel like copying another player’s build (or maybe my editing skills are so bad everyone closed the vid after 1 minute) but I don’t think I saw a single similar build yesterday.

I’m trying to make this a weekly thing where I make a new build for every event, and maybe feature other player’s builds so I don’t run out of currency/ideas.

Another thing I think might be great is to get some kind of LLD build list on the forums. I’ve asked around and most top players seem to be willing to do this..

Also, some way to get reddit’s attention for these events would be great..


@Vhlad.. you obviously didn't bother to read the rules for these pvp events..
Max 4L, no multimods, no quality gems.. I've made 3 builds so far with a 60c budget

multimods were allowed
(jewels were allowed too, which can arguably be even more extreme with 4 mod rares. lvl 28, 6 BIS jewel builds OP).

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Monstacookie wrote:

I agree with most of what you’ve said. I think the first step should be for hege or PT to make a structured pvp events thread on the pvp forums. I asked Hege if he was up for that but got the feeling he didn’t want to do it. I’ve thought about making a template for it with the basic information for Hege to post, but of course he would have to keep the thread up to date himself..

Yes, the current thread by ProjectPT is a little too rough. A more thorough thread would be good, but I agree that we need ProjectPT and/or Hege on board.

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Monstacookie wrote:

Last week I made an LLD build guide for my blast rain doomfletch ranger. Cheap, effective and easy to play, got rank 1 on both events without ever losing a matchup. Also uploaded some clips from yesterday’s event. Blast rain build guide

I don’t know If it’s a problem of visibility, or maybe people just don’t feel like copying another player’s build (or maybe my editing skills are so bad everyone closed the vid after 1 minute) but I don’t think I saw a single similar build yesterday.

I appreciated your build/video guide, it was organized well. I did see a few bow builds today, and I use a bow swap as well. Maybe there were people who followed your guide, but the matchmaking system prevented your encounters with them. Or they might've been in the US queue like I was for quite awhile, who knows. I also do think people like making something of their own viable, which definitely applies to me.

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Monstacookie wrote:

I’m trying to make this a weekly thing where I make a new build for every event, and maybe feature other player’s builds so I don’t run out of currency/ideas.

Another thing I think might be great is to get some kind of LLD build list on the forums. I’ve asked around and most top players seem to be willing to do this..

Also, some way to get reddit’s attention for these events would be great..

All ideas that I'm willing to get behind. The Reddit part feels the most surprising, as I sorta expected ProjectPT or Hege to make a simple Twitch highlight and post it.

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Vhlad wrote:

multimods were allowed

Multimods weren't allowed according to the rules in Hege's chat command !pvp. Unfortunately that bit wasn't specified in ProjectPT's thread, so it's possible multimods were used. I don't know of anyone who did though.

EDIT: As an additional note, I was slightly concerned that LNB already seemed to pull out of the PvP scene. I feel his previous experience can be likened to those of PvP newbies, who try something and don't succeed to the extent that they'd like. Hopefully he participates again to help encourage his viewers to give it a shot.

Responses

double post

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Head_Less wrote:

@PRojectPT, I think you could bump a lot more people to try pvp if LLD masters would share a crafting tutorial for LLD + 1/2 basic build anyone could try.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1758825
Like this thread, maybe invite him on stream and present his builds.

New players would learn to craft items from tutorial on stream and might enjoy trying the build pvp masters prepared for noobs.

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ProjectPT wrote:

Start small and grow, I do agree we could do more but the reddit HATES pvp and by trying to hard and making it feel forced you can make the same mistakes that GGG did.

I wouldn't say Reddit definitively hates PvP, as even recently there have been video posts hitting the front page showcasing HLD CTF. Judging from some Reddit comments, there is at least an audience of non-PvPers who find PvP content exciting and entertaining. That said, I do agree with you that there's a good number of people who don't like to see PvP content.

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Head_Less wrote:

@PRojectPT, I think you could bump a lot more people to try pvp if LLD masters would share a crafting tutorial for LLD + 1/2 basic build anyone could try.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1758825
Like this thread, maybe invite him on stream and present his builds.

New players would learn to craft items from tutorial on stream and might enjoy trying the build pvp masters prepared for noobs.

I think this is a good idea. I'm sure Monstacookie wouldn't mind doing a joint segment while ProjectPT is streaming LLD. His LLD videos so far have been spot on. The stream can be turned into a Twitch highlight and Youtube video, then posted to Reddit. I honestly think we'd get a bigger positive response than a negative one.