blow new life into LLD
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LLD or pretty much all pvp seems to be dead, server is full of to the brim of carebears and the pvp matches are abandoned pretty much, it whould be nice if ggg could blow new life to pvp, and especially LLD.
why LLD? well since HLD is autowin for whoever grinded pve for thousands of hours, people with 2 million dps is lame, sure LLD requires gear but not that much. i have played several action rpg games and always loved pvp, and LLD have always been the league to go. So.. ofc ill bring some simple ideas how it could be fixed. 1. make Leo daily completeable only for "pvp only" characters. this will bring in some ppl for daily quests 2. season rewards, pvp points, pvp challanges, achievements, leaderboard. This is how you draw the bulk people, adding pvp points in some way for doing LLD and having season rewards to the top pvpers aswell as trade in for pvp points, achievements is another way to add more. also a public leaderboard in town for people to click on and see the top LLD players, alot of ppl i spoke to who had played 1000+ hours didn't even know how to join a CTF match, some adviserment whould make ppl join more. 3. max level 28 sarn arena, yes, sarn arena is a pain when you join as pvp only and there are people at level 40 in it. Seriously, the servers are full of people, ive never seen a queue to log into PoE before, still it takes 30 minutes in a pvp queue before someone enters a 1v1. both in LLD and HLD, tho HLD is so unbalanced its not even fun. Cheers Set sail for epic fail Last bumped on Mar 21, 2016, 10:47:09 AM
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" Those are two pretty wrong statements imo. | |
" he didnt play vs lapiz yet in LLD. poor guy. he'll see 500-600ex lld gear and see the difference there. we better dont wake him up and keep his hope high. "You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength."
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Agree on most of that, but I think there are more/better ways to address this, some of them also pretty easy to implement. The sheer segregation of PvP, and the tendancy towards PvE players' introduction to it being extremely unfriendly, are among the biggest problems IMO. Refer to https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1618441/page/1/ for some of my best ideas on how to make PvP something people will actually play significantly. PvP needs to be more visible to PvE players, but WITHOUT throwing them in at the deep end as the current introduction in acts 2 and 3 does. Players need to be better informed of key points going into PvP and be able to get relatively even matches easier.
The fact that PvP Feedback and everything else is relegated to this little corner of the bottom of the forum is part of the problem. Feedback should be feedback. This subforum would be better placed under the Feedback tab. The Discussion subforms, likewise under the Discussion tab. And the rest would probably fit best under News... Without more feedback from players that are currently mostly/completely PvE but could be brought into PvP with appropriate PvP content, PvP is designed to fail, designed to remain a tiny little fragment of the community, almost completely forgotten by most of the people involved with the game. Leo is a decent step towards integrating PvE and PvP, but it's still substantially flawed (in large part because it tends to throw players in at the deep end) and needs adjustment. And it is absolutely crucial that typical players' first experience with PvP not be being thrown into a duel at level 17 trying out the system and meeting a level 28 with a full inventory of max-socketed 20 quality crafted rares and uniques that they can't even visibly damage. Or hopping into Sarn arena to see what Leo's quests are about and being promptly and repeatedly curbstomped by a handful of 40s. The sheer bad manners I've seen from some of the presumably "most serious" (or at least best-geared, because there's no use for skill with what some of them have) players of PoE PvP are absolutely atrocious. " I've seen that sort of gear, myself, and I hope to do something about the problem it presents when it comes to convincing new players PvP is worth playing. It's not impossible to address, but short of a league of players friending eachother for duels, it's going to take GGG involvement to make it work. People who don't like the Labyrinth are not a minority: Be heard - say you don't like it in your signature. Don't leave complaining about lab to others - GGG needs to see how many people dislike it. Ascendancy must be gated on true ARPG content, not a poorly-crafted internet Legend of Zelda wannabe.
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" Was just going to create a thread complaining about this. Impossible to do the Leo dailies with a premade when some lvl 35-40 tryhards are camping the arena. Kill 3 without dying, are you kidding me? Thus ends my three days of PoE pvp. At least I have a level 3 Leo now. | |
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Dont get the complaing about the sarn arena... my lvl 28 pvp char kills all the 36+ guys with 1-2 hits never had any issues. sometimes i can afk kill them with gloves enchant and molten shell. if your lvl 28pvp char cant beat normal lvling pve guys up to lvl 40 your char is just too weak.
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They are talking about pre-mades.
I'd suggest actually making a level 28 and putting some real gear on it. Pre-mades are shit and getting to level 28 acquiring gear 2-3x better then what they provide you with is extremely effortless. GGG, the ADA of gaming....huuuur i gotz mai skilz.
IGN: MullaXul | |
" Glove enchants on a level 28? Can you even do that? | |
" Which is exactly part of the problem, actually. Part of the point of premades is to focus the fights on skill over progressquest, yet there's little way to avoid progressquest throwing matches short of refusing to fight anyone who doesn't honour the gentlemen's agreement (which, to an extent, I and many others do; I won't waste time on a duel with a known 600ex-geared player.) Refining the premades would definitely help, but before it can be meaningful, contexts in which only premades or weaker characters are allowed need to exist. That said, personally? I consider anyone bringing a fully-geared 40 into Sarn and actively seeking to engage players 10+ levels under them a mindless, skilless chickenshit. This is pvp, not pve. The more you're reliant on gear to win, the less opportunity you have to even try to develop anything that can meaningfully be called pvp skill. The fact that gear and abusive builds override skill in current PoE pvp is a major part of why less than 1% of the playerbase even gives it the time of day. 600ex pvp kits ruined PoE pvp from the start and will continue to ensure it never becomes a significant part of the game unless and until a venue that focuses on skill over progressquest emerges. I get nothing but a few largely meaningless numbers out of slamming people with major gear/level disadvantages to me, that's why I won't even bother to pursue gearing up a non-premade pvp character, like almost everyone else in this game. I want to fight people on an even footing and win on my own merits. Many people who play competitive games feel this way, and it's part of what makes a game a watchable sport instead of a bad joke. I will say, though, even with all the above, I still have little to no problem completing my Leos every day with a premade, no matter what 600ex players try to get in the way. It ends up partly being a matter of being a little more patient than would otherwise be required. But that's probably a result of the exact skill I try to cultivate. I did hold #1 on the LLD HCP ladder for a bit, and could hold it much longer if I could just care enough to bother, but with pvp the way it is currently, I find I can't maintain enough interest in it to play it all that much. I want... need... the numbers to mean something, not just how much sheer time and/or currency I've put into it. Otherwise there's little point except the pve benefits and the occasionally meeting someone likeminded who plays skill-based duels. Thankfully, they're less rare than the 600ex crew. " You can do a lot of things if you have no interest in a fair fight. There are, after all, people out there who've bothered to buy the absolute best items that qualify for LLD at all, including 6Ls, fully 20Q'd and corrupted, extensively crafted, the works, even maxed out with divines and blesseds if they're feeling particularly obsessive. That's how you end up putting 600ex into a duel kit. And it has no place whatsoever in an actual skill-based competition. People who don't like the Labyrinth are not a minority: Be heard - say you don't like it in your signature. Don't leave complaining about lab to others - GGG needs to see how many people dislike it. Ascendancy must be gated on true ARPG content, not a poorly-crafted internet Legend of Zelda wannabe. Last edited by TheLastZica on Mar 18, 2016, 4:34:31 PM
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" I mean won't even the lowest glove enchants raise the level requirement of the glove past 28? Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those with a 100+ ex build, not necessarily good enough to consistently place top, but it's enough for me to have fun joining the tournaments and fighting other better geared builds. To me, I don't really care if I win or lose, it's the fights I'm after, and I'm getting that from what I'm investing in PvP. What do you mean by fair fight? Should the people at the top put themselves at a disadvantage to those that have no money/gear to fight them? PvP in PoE IS skill-based, assuming both players are in equal gear/build, the problem that we have now is some skills are blatantly overpowered, more evident in HLD (hello spark) than LLD, but can still be seen all the same. You should never say "oh X player has shittier gear, so Y player is fighting unfairly". In the first place, if the game is balanced around the lower tiered players, then it just shifts the power creep lower, until you get to the point where either its too easy to enter LLD and it just gets boring, or LLD fights in general becomes too slow and tedious to do. You've never tried playing a so-called "600ex build" versus another equally geared build, whilst I have had experience in premade vs premade. Your idea of "skill-based" is actually just a slugfest premade fight where you don't need to dodge since the enemy damage won't blow you up, you don't need to reposition since you're given a ton of skills for all ranges, you just need to stand still, maybe turn to face the running enemy, and spam spells until he runs out of potions first. Real duels between two high-tiered equally geared opponents have way more skill involved than any premade vs premade fight. I'll use a fight I had with Lapiz during the Torment PvP season (a temp league season where people still had 100ex builds 1 month into the league) where I was a Templar RT Elemental Archer, and Lapiz was a Dual Strike Crit Dagger Shadow. If I let lapiz so much as get near me, I'll get blown up and one shot, since as Templar I didn't have any defense (no acro, no block cuz archer, no rearguard quiver) but I had blink arrow, smoke mine, and my own tornado shot point blank traps to dissuade him from going near. I had to find a balance in keeping distance vs his whirling blades with all my movement skills, throw enough traps to create a buffer between him and me, and occasionally attack with tornado shot and hope for a lucky shock proc (I had 20% chance that time). Lapiz on the other hand, had to close the gap with whirling blades, offhand blink arrow, and flicker while dodging or destroying my traps that could potentially one shot him, and not getting hit by my TS which could also one shot him. This duel creates a scenario where movement and positioning becomes the number one factor that could decide the match, as opposed to say 2 melees fighting where pot management could be the deciding factor, or two spellcaster/trappers where who gets the first freeze/bear trap could be the deciding factor, not to mention mix and matches between all archetypes that create more scenarios that could never be replicated in premade vs premade duels, due to the lack of damage and/or utility that could allow you to force your enemy to react to whatever you did. EDIT: Also, do you think people SPEND 600ex to make their builds? They're VALUED at 600ex, but in reality, most pieces are self crafted/corrupted, with each piece (excluding 6L chests, which took me a good 12ex to make from scratch) costing about 5ex, 3ex in alts/regals/scours/chaos and 2ex to multimod, then vaaled. I'd say my current trapper cost me under 25ex to make from scratch, with me only buying cast when stunned corrupted asenaths, a +1 to gems tabula, a dream fragments, and the rest crafted from scratch, including 2 elreon jewelry pieces. Last edited by A222 on Mar 19, 2016, 5:58:57 AM
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