Pressing Questions for GGG race balance

Why are there no points for levels achieved? This signature is insanely tuned for melee.

list one season that was ever easier on melee.

Do you know right now in most races, fire trap flame totem WITH NO DPS NODES is better damage and survivability over any melee skill Marauder has access to? Why is firestorm better aoe than any aoe Marauder has access to?

With the re-balancing of levels, elemental resist rings should be usable at level 9 now.


Why were early weapons nerfed?

Why are early gems so bad now for melee?

Why is low level accuracy so bad for melee?

Why can't below level 15 all melee skills always hit or have 95% chance to hit? How would this break the game.

Why was the IPD recipe nerfed?

Who actually balances anything concerned with racing?

Why is the AI on ranged monsters so anti melee?

Why is vigilent strike and static strike, aka auto swing animation skills, so terrible to use?



Don't even get me started on the ridiculous nerf leap of slam - > give casters the best movement skill in the history of PoE. Can any of this ever be explained to me.

probably balanced by same dev that created blood of the summer for cleave shadows in s8. and we all know how many shadows went cleave back then

"

Why is vigilent strike and static strike, aka auto swing animation skills, so terrible to use?

If you can manage to click on the things you want to hit they are not so bad

"

Pam wrote:

"

Why is vigilent strike and static strike, aka auto swing animation skills, so terrible to use?

If you can manage to click on the things you want to hit they are not so bad

In the time it takes the animation to complete, bosses can move and not be hit, especially in a race format where bosses have a version of turbo.

You can also be stunned.

Ranger is even worse, with the options being fire trap (no damage scaling), poison arrow (almost no damage scaling) and shit arrow before lvl 12. I guess cleave might be an option for ranger, but going melee in the sig is like playing russian roulette and cleave is currency intensive and sketchy as hell in general (melee evasion yeah right).

It's just no fun to play, both ranger and melee struggle early on while casters still just fly through the game like it's nothing. It's the last few seasons all over again, except that ranger/melee is now even worse, I mean I could be wrong about this but I don't think there is any way in hell for ranger to ever hit 26 (possibly even 25, don't know) in the sig, the early game is just too weak. I know everyone has a hard-on for fire trap for some reason, but really compare the damage of unscaled fire trap to the damage of any caster class and it's a sad joke.

If they are going to make the sig excessively difficult for early levels, I think the very least GGG could do is balance the classes so early game isn't painful as hell for half of them.

I was initially pretty excited for this race season, but the awful balance, the silly mods on most races, etc.. are just too annoying. The only somewhat enjoyable aspect of racing this season for me is DC and that's because it didn't get that much worse.

P.S.: Roa back to lvl 4 pls, thx.

"

SlixSC wrote:

Ranger is even worse, with the options being fire trap (no damage scaling), poison arrow (almost no damage scaling) and shit arrow before lvl 12. I guess cleave might be an option for ranger, but going melee in the sig is like playing russian roulette and cleave is currency intensive and sketchy as hell in general (melee evasion yeah right).

It's just no fun to play, both ranger and melee struggle early on while casters still just fly through the game like it's nothing. It's the last few seasons all over again, except that ranger/melee is now even worse, I mean I could be wrong about this but I don't think there is any way in hell for ranger to ever hit 26 (possibly even 25, don't know) in the sig, the early game is just too weak. I know everyone has a hard-on for fire trap for some reason, but really compare the damage of unscaled fire trap to the damage of any caster class and it's a sad joke.

If they are going to make the sig excessively difficult for early levels, I think the very least GGG could do is balance the classes so early game isn't painful as hell for half of them.

I was initially pretty excited for this race season, but the awful balance, the silly mods on most races, etc.. are just too annoying. The only somewhat enjoyable aspect of racing this season for me is DC and that's because it didn't get that much worse.

P.S.: Roa back to lvl 4 pls, thx.

mule witch glyphs for flame totem and firetrap on ranger. doesnt projectile dmg increase flame totem dps?

"

janimauk wrote:

mule witch glyphs for flame totem and firetrap on ranger. doesnt projectile dmg increase flame totem dps?

good idea. I even thought about muling flameblast on templar.

For reference, top xp records in each sig race:

Season 2: deansymule, Templar, melee (ele cleave?)

Season 3: Alkaizerx, Duelist, melee (cleave (Descent))

Season 4: Condemned, Shadow, melee (phys cleave?)

Season 5: CWU, Scion, ranged with melee weapon (spectral throw)

Season 6: lZeus, Duelist, melee (leap slam)

Season 7: Throzz, Witch, caster (fire trap + ice nova)

Season 8: DittoWookie, Witch, caster (blood of summer + flameblast (Descent Champions))

Season 9: Throzz, Templar, caster (fire trap + lightning tendrils)

Season 10: Throzz, Templar, caster (fire trap + lightning tendrils)

Season 11: Throzz, Templar, caster (fire trap + lightning tendrils)

So yeah... for the first 5 seasons, only witch was going caster because her tree sucked for anything else. During that time, people even tried poison arrow + fire trap witch, cleave witch and ST witch because spells were that bad. It was common to see every class progressing to act3 and the caster witches staying in act2 because the damage was just not enough.

After that, we had 5 seasons where casters dominated so i guess it balances out :^).

This season casters will dominate again. Flame Dash is a ridiculous skill and i wouldnt be surprised if a record gets set with flame dash dropping for a class that doesnt get it at the vendor.

I think the main problem of caster vs melee is consistency.

Casters are always consistent. They were consistently bad and now they are consistently good.
It's the fact that your damage comes from your lvl.

In my worst runs, i will craft my weapon when i reach act2 town. That sets me back a few minutes but i can still make up for it if i get amazing rng the rest of the race. Now, with flame dash, not getting ms or 2nd qs isn't as bad as it was before.
In my best runs, i could get two weapons (a +1 fire and a flat dmg to spells) at lvl1 off the vendor and use them the entire race.

Ive only done 3 sig races as witch this season and i got #1 overall in all of them. That record will not hold until the end of the season but my point is to illustrate the consistency of you not needing much to have a good run.

Obviously the records will be set with amazing RNG, but the difference between average RNG and good RNG for casters is not a huge deal. I like that. It's way better than looking at your run and knowing you had absolutely no chance to have a good run because you didnt get 2nd qs or ms or you couldnt roll your +1 of choice on your weapon.

Right now, melee characters (and bows aswell) suffer from that consistency problem. In order for you to have a good run, you need so many things to go right.
The difference between average rng and good rng is too big. With amazing RNG, melee shits on everything (very visible in DC where you get enough currency to have good RNG), but if you dont get what you need, you suck ass. It also doesn't help that being melee you are exposed to more damage and your chance to die is higher.

But damage isnt the only problem. You can do some comparisons for early game:

Consider a tight pack of 7 skeletons in ledge...

1) You throw a fire trap (0.5 seconds) and place a flame totem (0.2 seconds) and you will kill 6 of those skeletons. You don't even have to move out of your way (0 seconds) because you can aim those skills anywhere. You just need the gems socketed somewhere.


2) You move closer (0.5 seconds) to the pack cleave 4 times (2.376 seconds) and kill 6 of those skeletons. The AoE of cleave is too small to hit the entire pack with each cleave and you will miss sometimes with one weapon. You need 2 cleave weapons and an iron ring.


3) You move closer (0.5 seconds), ground slam 3 times (2.308 seconds) and kill 5 of those skeletons. While cleave dual wields so you can miss with 1 weapon and still hit with the other, if you miss with a 2her its a wasted attack so generally there will be more mobs with leftover hp. You need a 2h mace or staff and an iron ring.


4) You fire split arrow 5 times and wonder why only one skeleton died...


In the past, things that were consistent were always nerfed:

Poison Arrow + Fire Trap (too consistent - its actually a 'caster' spec) too ez, too safe, nerfed

Cleave (can roll phys weapons or ele weapons doesnt matter, scales amazingly with weapons, rings, amulets and gloves, 4 base weapon types to choose from, high chance of just getting good useful drops, potential for insane dmg), nerfed

Spectral Throw (transforming melee weapons into ranged, very good dmg + safety, can use any weapon base in the game, very good chance of getting amazing drops), nerfed


My suggestion is to not nerf the caster spec (maybe just do something about flame dash) and instead consider doing at least some of the following changes to help melee (note that these changes will also help newbies trying PoE for the first time having an overall better experience with the game):

. Ground slam needs to 1shot with a 2her. Make a white driftwood maul + 1 iron ring one shot most whites (maybe not crabs, birds, goat shaman and necros) up until lower prison.

. Cleave needs a larger base AoE. Something closer to Tendrils for example.

. If you are going to make a skill that hits very few targets (split arrow), you better make it do amazing damage, specially if that skill requires you to position yourself to use it (frost blades).

. Make it easier somehow for melee characters to craft a 2her at brutus or at least at merv. Sometimes you get no currency or not enough superior weapons, sometimes even the base weapons don't drop.

. Make a crafted lvl8/9 weapon (tribal maul, jade chopper) 1shot whites until half of act2.

. Accuracy early lvls is terrible. In racing, in order to keep up the pace, we are always a few lvls below the zone. Adjust the accuracy formula curve so it isn't as punishing early lvls.

. Dont reset the cooldown on vigilant strike if you dont actually hit with it (animation cancelling or whiffing if monsters move out of way)

That should help...

Witch seem beyond screwed in Descent Champion when they get to The Brute. Its pretty hard to DPS him down without killing skeles and then once he is low life he is in your face smacking the ever loving shit out of you like he is on twenty 5-hour Engery drinks and wearing his Nike running shoes.

The best strat atm from talking with others and advice from Pam one of the top racers is that we have to face tank him with evasion gear with shield and we still don't have a 20% dmg reduction from vigilant strike and a solid single target. It is pretty damn close to a gamble on surviving this fight even with decent gear and flasks as a witch. I don't feel like any class should have to say well shit guess I have to play this other class to not die in a fight or do somewhat decent in a race. I got rank 258 in a Descent Champs race but got 18th witch at the same time, that should tell you something about the state of Witch for DC races.