[ LLD & HLD ] Your Balanced/Broken builds list
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I'm curious to hear what everyone has to list out here, it would be interesting to see what kind of build you think is too strong and the one you think is the most balanced.
Feel free to say why you dediced to list those builds. My list : Traps LLD: This gem really makes any skill linked to it very powerful, the first skill i want to mention with traps is Puncture. Puncture characters generaly use bows for this trap setup and the amount of physical damage it can deal is very high, you need to stack flat physical on items and having Increased % from the tree to make the trap gem multiplicate it all by often double the initial amount. From my experience self shot puncture is close to being balanced, as it doesn't get multiplied by any modifiers except from %Increased damage on the tree, it is much more manageable. Now let's take a look at why i think these are too strong, considering you can already deal a shitloads of damage initially the trap gem offers a multiplicative of 17% MORE damage and not Increased, this is a huge multiplicative considering the DoT damage is 50% of the initial hit, while lasting for a very long time if you dont have a flask for it. Now this already sounds pretty damaging overall and it's really not over, since puncture is a projectile attack you can use point blank with it which adds a total of 50% MORE damage and again, this is not % Increased. You can get this via the Point blank tree node or with the gem and a 15% Increased projectile damage quality bonus. Now you can only imagine how much unmitigable physical damage you're eating as an initial hit with an extra 50% DoT after. Generally these builds arent focusing on critical, but even with gear like double diamond rings and a couple investments you can easily reach over 15% critical chance and a base of 150 crit multiplier. In fact being a melee hard counter, in general it is pretty hard to keep away from point blank traps and especially in 3v3s with pretty much any build. I also want to mention that this mechanic applies to any projectile attack gem with this build settup and makes pretty much any skill close to a 1 hit mechanic. While talking about Point blank, i want i add up another build that i find is too strong. Point blank molten strike critical dagger build is a build played by lapiz and surprisingly i dont see many people doing that build. I can however tell that this might become a problem in the future wether it is in temp or base leagues with better gear considering this really is the reflection of a 1 shot mechanic build. As a base molten strike is an attack with projectiles in itself, generally the balls dont do so much damage with no multipliers. However when you add up criticals and % More damage by getting crit on the tree and items combined with point blank gem you can achieve insane amounts of fire damage directly to your projectile balls. I have often seen my 1.8k hp get instagib by the molten balls when they crited and it is easy to achieve a crit with a diamond flask and enough from the gear and tree. I think any 1 shot mechanic settup is definatly not balanced to provide good metagames and lasting matches, no one really likes to die in 1 shot and with tanky builds you start to see at what level certain skills deal too much damage, it's hard to judge when playing a cookiecutter build with 1-1.3k hp. Point blank nerf, i think the most easiest way to provide balance towards these types of builds would certainly be a nerf directly to point blank in PvP. Reduce the % more damage it provides because 50% ( double damage ) is certainly not balanced and PvP was really not took into considerion when creating this particular node/gem. Trap scales great with projectile attacks it can also be used with spells, the most commons ones are freezing pulse, spark and ice spear traps. I'm not sure if these are balanced or not but they do deal quite a lot of damage and can often 2 shot with two traps, especially the freezing pulse and ice spear ones. These are much easier to deal with than puncture trappers ofcourse, they can however make use of cold snap which is probably the best utility skill in the game. Cold snap provides really easy auto lock aiming with really far range, it can freeze and chill you for very long duration, i think casters need this utility skill for sure but sometimes the chill feels like it's lasting for too long, you should get out of chill before the cold snap cooldown goes down and this is often not the case. HLD: Pretty much what was said above applies to HLD as well, with much bigger scalings, so i let you imagine by yourself. However traps are easier to deal with in HLD due to higher movement speed and less limited skill use. The real problem that i see in HLD is Remote mine, it also adds a multiplicative of 50% More base damage and i've seen puncture mines 1 shot 8k+ es/hp with the gem itself in a 6l or 4l. Remote mine could really use a damage nerf in general considering the damage of what you link to it is already very high. I tried various remote mine settups myself because i'm a well geared spell caster in std and i could achieve really broken amounts of damage. Take for exemple remote mine arc, i would simply put remotemine/arc/lightpen/blockchancered in a 4L and when i set up more than 4 you can really 1 shot any build with this and the same thing applies to anything linked to it really. Double the damage from the gem mod is really insane overall. For a conclusion i really think anything that adds % MORE damage needs to be investigated and taken seriously into balance considering the amount of multiplicative it provides, easily doubles the damage of anything used with it. The most balanced build : I will think about it, gonna write it down later. IGN:Hauntworld - ICU Omniscient PvP guild ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PvP Low life crit caster / Gear -->/1829851 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HLD PvP tournaments -->/1576295 Last edited by hauntworld1 on Mar 14, 2015, 2:05:01 AM
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I didn't really read your post (I probably will later), I just went Ctrl + F for "Ice" and expected Ice Shot but found Ice Spear. FYI, I'm pretty much the only Ice Spear trapper and the reason they hit so hard sometimes is because I'm crit. An ordinary Ice Spear trapper would perform much worse than a Freezing Pulse trapper because it's difficult to land all 3 IS projectiles, while FP projectiles overlap a lot. FP trap is just a lot more reliable. If you want a truly high damage trap though, then go with Fireball trap (I just went with Ice Spear trap because it gives chill/freeze potential).
Anyway, I do agree that traps are still strong. I'd lower damage a little bit more (by lowering attack time I think?), but I'd couple that with an increase in CC duration to 3 seconds. Point Blank needs a nerf of its own too. Last edited by mimivirus on Mar 14, 2015, 2:09:03 AM
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" Ice spear is really, really strong in HLD too. Though GGG can't seperate their changes cause theyre bad at pretty much everything about pvp, so if either gets nerfed, the other is affected too => if ggg actually balance something in HLD, lld will take a beating It's hard to remember what you have forgotten
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why are police looking for missing people? None of them were missing last time I saw them |
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Traps(both)
Point Blank(both) Elemental equilibrium(both) Cold snap (LLD) Cyclone(both) Molten shell(HLD) Bear traps(both) Remote mines(HLD) Iceshot(both) Firestorm(both) Tempest shield (HLD) Flame blast (HLD) EA(HLD) Freeze pulse(HLD) Anything that can 1 shot 10k hit points with formidable defenses needs to be looked at also. The most common complaint I hear from pvp is one shot mechanics. The ironic thing is how the majority of the events this season were blitz events which guide you to acquire your maximum damage possible to succeed in the event. So this season GGG basically sponsored 1 second kills which newer players get frustrated the most from. I am not saying I don't like blitz, but if we are to target a wider audience there should be game modes that do not favor just one second kill squishy builds. Capture the flag is a great example. A main build for a good CTF team is a tank runner. Any alternate strategy games that can be implemented into pvp can help broaden the build pool away from one second kills, and get newer players more interested. Dublicious Last edited by ddub3987 on Mar 14, 2015, 9:56:53 AM
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Just give it up.Too many different opinions.Everyone wants the skills/mechanics that are causing problems to be nerfed. And since everyone has another build , considering gear/skills/tree/whatsoever, everyone has another thorn in his side. Endless discussions that lead to nowhere.
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" The first 2 skills I listed are how I generate the majority of my dps. You would know this if you actually pvp'd. You are right about too many opinions though. Too many people who don't even pvp think they know what they are talking about. Dublicious
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" 3-10 rankings in every swiss first season and one of the most active standard pvp'ers, even in off season.I think i know how to pvp. Yeah ofc they generate the majority of your dps (like hatred does for phys builds - hatred op) and i don't see a problem in that. I have seen a lot of your matches your damage is totally not over the top. Elemental penetration is the problem. The bleed of puncture while walking, crit (ridic multiplier). These are the problems but not the initial hit of traps, cause it is quite weak leaving out all these factors. | |
" Bleed while walking is not the biggest problem with puncture It's hard to remember what you have forgotten
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why are police looking for missing people? None of them were missing last time I saw them |
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" Thank you run. Penetration is what makes casters debatably too strong, which I don't even necessarily have a problem with. And puncture traps are garbage unless you have crit because there aren't any phys support gems for 28 besides point blank. Faster projectiles and slower projectiles are insignificant in their contribution. Crit is what's making some builds really OP, but I think it's a good thing to strive for that kind of top level gear and top level play, I'm not sure how I would suggest balancing that or if I would. |
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Some people think molten shell is justifiable because it's a casters "only" defense against melee. While that sentiment in it's own can easily be disproved by an elite skilled caster with proper set up their is no denying that MS is way too strong. For reference, a non-ele spec melee with 0% spell buff can deliver ~40-50% of melee opponent life by using ms/pen/emp - which can be achieved in a +1 perandus or boots. Casters do need MS, no doubt. But the hair-trigger proc and massive dmg output is undoubtedly OP. Drop damage 20% (only 5% more than molten strike was nerfed) and increase the dmg threshold trigger. The spammable aspect of MS is one of the biggest concerns, because as a melee it eats up all insta-flasks and the caster is still capable of defeating melee all on it's own self cast anyway. At least allow Alpha testers to toy with the changes.
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