Experiences from Season Five

Hey everyone,

I really need to put these thoughts down here. I´m a ambitious race player, not top notch, but regularly hitting the top 100 in races I participate. And here are some of my thoughts and impressions of race season five. Warning: Wall of Text ahead.

The good stuff

So let´s start with the good stuff, shall we?
I really liked Descent Champions. It was a nice experience with the feeling of doing something really new. Adding Skillbooks and race reward points for those mini-bosses felt rewarding - I had a good time doing those. Definitely thumbs up from my side.
Endless Ledge? Was some experience, feels quite crazy but enjoyable.
Another good impression were those race rewards this season. I only hit the 135 point reward, but I´m really enjoying those nice items.
In all those points I had a really good experience during race season five.

But where there are good things, there has to be ...

The bad stuff

I really need to divide these thoughts in subtopics. There were sadly some points in this season which took quite some nerves. So lets begin!

Syncing Issues

Yeah, I know. Nothing real new. But desyncing is really a big problem during races. Always has been and worth putting up two lines of text. Please find a solution folks!

Scheduling for Europeans

Season Five had quite some bad scheduling for European players. I noticed that American players felt similar. Working people are having a hard time to compete with those guys who got more time on their hands. Sadly I dont think we could change anything about that. But still I´d wish for a better thought through schedule which satisfies players around the world with playable races during good times of the day (5pm - 11pm)

Leap-Slam-a-roo

I dedicate one block of text especially for this skill. Leap Slam is one of the most played skills by top ranking players. It offers an insane amount of mobility and speed. And it put´s back all classes which have no possibilities of getting it via quest rewards.
I personally think this skill is bad for the racing scene. It leads to a contest of Leap Slammers in the top 20, while classes like the Witch automatically have a big drawback because they are missing this skill.
And the worst thing about it: Most players dont even use it to fight, just for travelling distances at enormous speed.
I feel this is quite wrong. It feels wrong just to go like Wild Oak in races just to have a shot at the competition. I really hope that something will be done about this issue, because Leap Slamming isnt that much fun if youre only doing it to be faster - I hope this is understandable.

Dead People dont get no points

Why do these new, shiny race models all have rewards even for dead characters while the classic modes dont?
This season I had a really nice run. Going somewhere in the top 20, last two minutes of the race and suddenly a wild disconnection appeared. I died, two minutes before the end of the race on the 17th place. And I didnt get nothing for this race. It was just bad luck but I dont really think it adds anything good to my race experience that all classic mode races need to be survived.
It even brings some of my friends to the point where they would like to race further after hitting the 5-point reward breakpoint but going like: "Nah, I dont wanna risk my 5 points."
And thats something i really dont like. Racing should be all about pressing forward and giving your best shot until the last second. So why dont reward us even if we die? Or just create a mod like "Survivor" for classic races where your character has to be alive to reap the rewards with some nice bonus perhaps.
But right now I think its just a pain that i can die in the last 30 seconds and ruin everything. Its just my gaming experience, but I think I´m not the only one thinking this way.

Dock-Farmerama vs progressive racing

Let´s face it: Most top results in Season 5 occured due to massive dock farming. There is little to no reward for playing your race progressive if its less than 4 hours time. And I personally dont think it should be that way. Farming Docks for some progression is okay, but the race to hit docks and then see who farms best doesnt feel like a race experience at all.
I´d wish for some rewards for progression. Maybe some small bonus points like in Descent Champions for Act-Completion? I really dont know but I´m bored of Dock-Farmerama - and I even guess that those top-notch players are as well.

So, I hit the end of my list.
I really enjoyed Season Five. I really enjoy races in Path of Exile. But there is much work to do and I hope my wall of text will be read.

Have a nice day and I´m looking forward to Season Six!

Some good feedback.

One of the main reasons there aren't "progression" races is until the very end of the season no one even tried to compete with our group in party races where you need to progress to beat us.

Personally I hate docks at this point in my PoE career, and I am looking forward to the next time they tell us something "is the new docks" and then it isn't and it in general sucks.

"

Celandrion wrote:

Leap-Slam-a-roo

And the worst thing about it: Most players dont even use it to fight, just for travelling distances at enormous speed.

Well, that is not entirely correct. It is used for fighting. The reason why it is so good is because it covers both travelling and fighting.

Why not mention Spectral Throw at all?

"

Celandrion wrote:

Dead People dont get no points

Spoiler

Why do these new, shiny race models all have rewards even for dead characters while the classic modes dont?
This season I had a really nice run. Going somewhere in the top 20, last two minutes of the race and suddenly a wild disconnection appeared. I died, two minutes before the end of the race on the 17th place. And I didnt get nothing for this race. It was just bad luck but I dont really think it adds anything good to my race experience that all classic mode races need to be survived.
It even brings some of my friends to the point where they would like to race further after hitting the 5-point reward breakpoint but going like: "Nah, I dont wanna risk my 5 points."
And thats something i really dont like. Racing should be all about pressing forward and giving your best shot until the last second. So why dont reward us even if we die? Or just create a mod like "Survivor" for classic races where your character has to be alive to reap the rewards with some nice bonus perhaps.
But right now I think its just a pain that i can die in the last 30 seconds and ruin everything. Its just my gaming experience, but I think I´m not the only one thinking this way.

I suggested in another thread that class rank points could be awarded only to survivors while points for reaching a certain level could be for both living and dead characters.

"

Celandrion wrote:

Dock-Farmerama vs progressive racing

Spoiler

Let´s face it: Most top results in Season 5 occured due to massive dock farming. There is little to no reward for playing your race progressive if its less than 4 hours time. And I personally dont think it should be that way. Farming Docks for some progression is okay, but the race to hit docks and then see who farms best doesnt feel like a race experience at all.
I´d wish for some rewards for progression. Maybe some small bonus points like in Descent Champions for Act-Completion? I really dont know but I´m bored of Dock-Farmerama - and I even guess that those top-notch players are as well.

I know I repeat myself, but I think a "tiered ladder system" could solve the problem. Rank everyone according to the act that they reached (Act 1 Cruel > Act 3 Normal > Act 2 Normal > Act 1 Normal) and then rank by XP within the resulting "groups".


Anyway, good precise feedback! See you in Season 6!

"

Hassefar60 wrote:

I know I repeat myself, but I think a "tiered ladder system" could solve the problem. Rank everyone according to the act that they reached (Act 1 Cruel > Act 3 Normal > Act 2 Normal > Act 1 Normal) and then rank by XP within the resulting "groups".

That's completely unecessary, Mors' group made it to Cruel several times and even our group made it to Cruel once or twice in 3h races and the groups in Cruel generally always out-xp the groups in Docks.

The only problem is that if your Spectral Thrower dies early you have almost no way of killing Dominus, the Dominus fight without a spectral thrower in the group is just an absolute pain in the ass. Helmann tried it as Marauder and got one-shot by the mini-bosses.

So if your spectral thrower dies early your group is gonna have an insanely difficult time killing dominus, so the death of one player would literally result in double-punishment for the rest of the group, not only would you lose the race by not getting to Cruel early (and losing out on XP), but you could potentially also lose to worse parties who didn't lose their spectral thrower or other classes (though I'm not really sure there are any classes other than scion) that can realistically kill Dominus (especially the mini-bosses) reasonably safely and quickly, by not making it to Cruel (for the bracket you are suggesting).

I told you this before, but I honestly think your suggestion would just over-complicate things and put even more emphasis on having a spectral thrower in the group and if that spectral thrower dies the whole group just gets kinda fucked.

I tried ST scion in the 1 week race and it was ridiculous how easy that boss fight is on normal if you have ST (especially compared to other skills and classes that don't have ST). I honestly think that boss fight is broken and the only reason it even seems balanced for racing is that you can kind of cheese the boss with spectral throw and off-screen everything. But if your Spectral Thrower dies that fight is an absolute pain in the ass for pretty much all other classes.


edit:
With that said, I agree that Docks XP is probably too good compared to the XP you get in higher level zones. There really is no benefit to farming lunaris instead of docks because I'm fairly sure on average Docks trumps lunaris and it might even trump cruel ledge but I'm not sure about that. I think the problem is that in docks you have guaranteed blue packs, just like in sins, whereas when farming cruel ledge or lunaris you can have runs with almost zero blue packs (and you obviously lose out on farming XP while progressing). So what I would suggest is they put more guaranteed blue packs in higher level zones. I don't see why there shouldn't be some guaranteed blue packs in cruel ledge or in lunaris 3, just like in docks.

It would do alot to encourage players to progress more.

I think progressing should always be encouraged, but I don't think it should be done by artificial means when the actual problem is that the game itself doesn't necessarily reward progressing enough by offering players progressively better farming spots at higher levels and difficulties.

"

Well, that is not entirely correct. It is used for fighting. The reason why it is so good is because it covers both travelling and fighting.

Why not mention Spectral Throw at all?

Because Helman uses Leap Slam lol

"

I know I repeat myself, but I think a "tiered ladder system" could solve the problem. Rank everyone according to the act that they reached (Act 1 Cruel > Act 3 Normal > Act 2 Normal > Act 1 Normal) and then rank by XP within the resulting "groups".

First the devs should finally fix 1p HP tagging. Party races are always 1 group of six gets first and the 2nd and 3rd group are groups of 3-4 players. There are even solo players in the Top 40.

Then they should bring Phase Run Back and put throw QS Flasks in the never come back can.
The difference between 1 and 3 QS flasks is just horrible.

The only way to add more content without creating no life types is to add race modes such as 2h on the first evening then 2h on the next etc.

"

There is little to no reward for playing your race progressive if its less than 4 hours time.

GGG should finally make Clarissa optional and decrease the amount of dead ends in Solaris Temple. Act3 should be more linear and not force you to visit so many side areas.
Or remove sins in Act2 and create a relation between the gem and vaals power.

Act3 is such a time waster and it's not like Barracks is level 35....


I would rather see a shedule like in S2 again. There were only 2 CTs in Season 5 and they were both party which is nothing but ganging up in numbers.


As long there is no White Item sigrace. I would vote for for a 2h Turbo CT signature event.

At last something different. But certainly not Rogue because I am sick of seeing Xandro in the first 10 min of the race being in spots like glyphs or the upper passage.
And certainly no tiny change like Nemesis mods/Shrines.

Or finally some Void League races where you start in Sarn or popular gems are removed and you must race with onpopular gems.

Meaning no spectral throw(give the scion double strike as first gem), no leapslam. Just to have a different experience.

It even might be nice to scale some higher level gems down for testing
We only had increased levels of popular gems such as elemental hit(+drop only till 1.0) or Lightning Arrow.

"

That's completely unecessary, Mors' group made it to Cruel several times and even our group made it to Cruel once or twice in 3h races and the groups in Cruel generally always out-xp the groups in Docks.

This depends how much time you got in Cruel.
If you got 1h-45min surely. But with 10-20min unlikely.
70+min docks might even end up with level 40.

"

The only problem is that if your Spectral Thrower dies early you have almost no way of killing Dominus, the Dominus fight without a spectral thrower in the group is just an absolute pain in the ass. Helmann tried it as Marauder and got one-shot by the mini-bosses.

I used Leapslam and dominating blow that worked fine but the weapon was rather horrible and time ran out(Without tagging)

"

that can realistically kill Dominus (especially the mini-bosses) reasonably safely and quickly, by not making it to Cruel (for the bracket you are suggesting).

Mara with Berserking and Decoytotem for example.

I don't see any problems but the high amount of HP and Caster characters getting killed.

"

Hilbert wrote:

I would vote for for a 2h Turbo CT signature event.

LOL

"

This depends how much time you got in Cruel.
If you got 1h-45min surely. But with 10-20min unlikely.
70+min docks might even end up with level 40.

Well duh. If your group can't kill Dominus in under 2h15m you won't win the race either way, so that's irrelevant.

"

I used Leapslam and dominating blow that worked fine but the weapon was rather horrible and time ran out(Without tagging)

The "time ran out" is kinda the essential part here. Sure you can kill Dominus with any class. But Spectral Throw does it so much faster and is so much safer than everything else it's not even comparable.

Well, SlixSC, your points are good and valid. I have not tried to "push" past Dominus, underlevelled in bad gear. I think I killed him at level 37 in the one week as Duelist easy peasy. It sounds as if the real problem is Dominus and/or Spectral Throw (which we have discussed before).

But remember, my suggestion of a tiered ladder system was not only directed towards 3 hour party races. I think it would have been a valid raking system in, e.g., season 4's signature race, 105 min turbo solo.
As your say, in many races it should be unnecessary. But in those well timed race types where it is possible but hard to reach the next act, it could give an added incentive to give progression a shot.

Also, zone levels in act 3 are weird. There are three lvl 29 zones, four level 30 zones, ONE level 31 zone, and four level 32 zones. Lowering Docks to 31 might help, although not much.

"

Hassefar60 wrote:

Well, SlixSC, your points are good and valid. I have not tried to "push" past Dominus, underlevelled in bad gear. I think I killed him at level 37 in the one week as Duelist easy peasy. It sounds as if the real problem is Dominus and/or Spectral Throw (which we have discussed before).

But remember, my suggestion of a tiered ladder system was not only directed towards 3 hour party races. I think it would have been a valid raking system in, e.g., season 4's signature race, 105 min turbo solo.
As your say, in many races it should be unnecessary. But in those well timed race types where it is possible but hard to reach the next act, it could give an added incentive to give progression a shot.

Also, zone levels in act 3 are weird. There are three lvl 29 zones, four level 30 zones, ONE level 31 zone, and four level 32 zones. Lowering Docks to 31 might help, although not much.

I don't think they have to lower docks, but rather increase the zone levels/mob density/amount of blue packs in other zones. Some progression zones are just absolutely terrible eXP... solaris, the whole sceptre of god (but that has more to do with dmg and health of mobs), sewers, etc.. for various reasons.

Also, in season 4 I'm pretty sure all records were set in Sarn, with the exception of Witch obviously, so what would your suggested tier system effectively have accomplished? I just don't see it.

"

SlixSC wrote:

Also, in season 4 I'm pretty sure all records were set in Sarn, with the exception of Witch obviously, so what would your suggested tier system effectively have accomplished? I just don't see it.

I was not thinking of the records, just the individual race event of that type.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion; not claiming it is a polished solution. And of course, it should be tested as a race mod in between season first.
And it is the only suggested solution to the problem so far that does not involve re-balancing the main game.

Cruel ledge is considerably better xp than normal docks. Unless theres been some massive stealth monster xp changes in the past couple of months?

As for spectral throw and leap slam... cleave all over again, or ground slam if you go back a bit further. At this point i think the whole starting on twilight strand with the standard class gem rewards and shared stash enabled thing has pretty much reached the limit of its ability to provide a balanced and competitive race environment.