How you can make combo work and make the combat more meaningful.

First of all i love poe2, been playing since they announced it, and i think its the most different ARPG on the market, every other game is 80% similar to eachother,

Second ill make this one thing clear

We Are Not Asking For Slow Gameplay, We are Asking for Combat Depth, that is Fast, Reactive and Complex.

i love how elements interact, it was a way to creat ways to combo, but they are not true combos.

Take Monk for example, he has to spam an attack till his enemy is low enough for him to excute so he can get the charge and THEN he can Falling Thunder to release those charges and does massive damage in a larger area.

its cool just not enough combo, instead of excute it can be named "Combo" if the enemy was just hit with a Ice or Wind ability you can use the Killing palm To attack "not excute" allowing you to do a different wind or ice ability than the first one to deal more damage and Falling thunder would increase in power depending on how many skills you used before it in the combo chain, if you dont combo you dont get the big attack.

this would ensure that screenclears are still there just you have to actually earn them, and not just mindlessly hitting one button and your whole screen dies.

make the classes and ascendencies are specilized in a style of combat you wanna play,so every ascendancy feels UNIQUE and Different in terms of how they combo and achieve their damage and not just different passives, all the combo skills need to flow together, meaning think of the skills as a fighting game, so some skills need to be sped up so they can link, but rn, going from one skill to the next is sooo slow and clunky compared to a fighting game where combos matter.

or think of them like league of legends champions, take zed, has 4 skills 2 do damage and 2 are utility but if you connect all the 4 skills, Death mark then a second shadow, then connect his shurkens on the target with the spin stab, target dies, so what im trying to say is, the skills in poe 2 are unique but they dont connect, they must flow into eachother.

my closing thought is poe 2 was made to have more combat depth, more engaging combat, screenclears with one button are just gonna make poe 2 into poe 1, then what is the point, why not just enhance the combo gameplay? i mean for me Right now im playing every class that i dont like waiting for my true class which is the assassin, and if they make it that i can just use one skill and i can clear the whole room, im qutting the game, where is the fun in playing assassin if all i do is one button, i wanna go invisible, teleport behind mobs backstab one of them, make him explode then it can screenclear then throw a smoke grenade and do a spin attack or something, but that is the difference, the build up to the screenclear, one has you acutaly work towards your screenclear the other just hands it like its open buffet, unfun and unengaging, just spam skill kill everything and go mindelessly from one map to the other, no thoughts, no feelings, just waiting for the currency to drop, if this is what poe2 wants to be then i dont want poe2.

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Emperorraom#7741 wrote:

We Are Not Asking For Slow Gameplay, We are Asking for Combat Depth, that is Fast, Reactive and Complex.

Whos We?

fast combat with poe2 graphic is better

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SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

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Emperorraom#7741 wrote:

We Are Not Asking For Slow Gameplay, We are Asking for Combat Depth, that is Fast, Reactive and Complex.

Whos We?

The true fans of Poe2's original vision :)

I Mostly agree with your ideas.
I also think analysing poe2 combat along the dimension of slow-fast (like many advocates of poe1 combat vs "vision combat" do) is very unproductive and misleading. These terms are very subjective (not to say meaningless) since they mean 10 different things to 10 different people. The only real way to show what you mean is with an actual video of gameplay. In poe1 I would consider any of the current meta melee builds (berserker slams for example) to be very fast by poe2 standards but another player might not and think a build with mageblood + quicksilver flask + more attack speed is fast.

And like you said I do believe that the ability to screenclear effortlessely should be earned and lay at the end of the journey each league.
Seeing how GGG designed the recent talisman shapeshifting attacks to combo together nicely gives me hope that future weapon-types they add will do so aswell and that they will continue to improve and update the older weapons aswell.

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Argonlo#6237 wrote:

I Mostly agree with your ideas.
I also think analysing poe2 combat along the dimension of slow-fast (like many advocates of poe1 combat vs "vision combat" do) is very unproductive and misleading. These terms are very subjective (not to say meaningless) since they mean 10 different things to 10 different people. The only real way to show what you mean is with an actual video of gameplay. In poe1 I would consider any of the current meta melee builds (berserker slams for example) to be very fast by poe2 standards but another player might not and think a build with mageblood + quicksilver flask + more attack speed is fast.

And like you said I do believe that the ability to screenclear effortlessely should be earned and lay at the end of the journey each league.
Seeing how GGG designed the recent talisman shapeshifting attacks to combo together nicely gives me hope that future weapon-types they add will do so aswell and that they will continue to improve and update the older weapons aswell.

i really hope, makes the whole "unforgiving combat" and "Combat depth" have literaly 0 worth, i hope they take a step back and go with their original vision in a new light, less slow and sloggy, more fast paced and meaningful combat that cares about timing your skills than just spamming

As long as there is trade and there are 1 button speedy builds playing slow builds that require a lot of extra work will always be just plain worse. You will never keep up with economical inflation. People don't even do this irl, they want more money for less time always. You would never intentionally take less money and spend more time doing tasks for work.

If you don't care about being able to buy certain gear then it really doesn't matter. It is 100% dependent on your personality.

If you're ok with comparative mediocrity then you are ok with whatever. League start statistics prove that people are interested in maximizing investment vs progression possible being the smallest value possible. Then people generally pivot into the fastest endgame builds.

If the slow methodical game play was the majority then you wouldn't see deadeye/amazon/blood mage being the statistical outliers.

Slow methodical game play is incredibly fun in games where you play through the story and complete the game(for your standards) at some point(think dark souls). As long as a game has a seemingly infinite grind truly slow builds won't be enjoyed by the majority.

Its up to GGG to decide if they want to make a great game for few or make an average game for a larger audience.

That being said I think werewolf ice stuff so far has been peak poe2. It didn't bore me like ice strike monk and it didn't feel broken. I do play ssf though.

Built from the ground up as an "upgrade" for PoE1, it will most likely not achieve this vaguely described vision. The "most different" ARPG is probably No Rest For The Wicked which is what a lot of folks probably envision PoE2's slow and meaningful should be more like. But with scores of turbo beasts charging you it isn't possible.

That said, it would be interesting if they could somehow have an endgame mechanic that did this. I don't know how, just thinking out loud.

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FruitLord#0833 wrote:

Built from the ground up as an "upgrade" for PoE1, it will most likely not achieve this vaguely described vision. The "most different" ARPG is probably No Rest For The Wicked which is what a lot of folks probably envision PoE2's slow and meaningful should be more like. But with scores of turbo beasts charging you it isn't possible.

That said, it would be interesting if they could somehow have an endgame mechanic that did this. I don't know how, just thinking out loud.

You know, on that point. They really killed the motivation to play according to the vision when they make super fast teleporting abyss degen monsters.

GGG makes this monster then is confused at why people don't want to combo.

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Emperorraom#7741 wrote:

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SalamiHaze#9389 wrote:

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Emperorraom#7741 wrote:

We Are Not Asking For Slow Gameplay, We are Asking for Combat Depth, that is Fast, Reactive and Complex.

Whos We?

The true fans of Poe2's original vision :)

Thats biased bs, cause the true fans of the PoE 2 Original vision want a slower gameplay balanced around the warrior, not the zoomies from the bloodmage or ranger section.