Base damage clarification

Hello! Good day to you.

It is not exactly a feedback but more of a question.
I have a topic that crossed forum many times, yet still I was unable to find one-way answer.

So, yes, Base damage.
Game does not currently provive an answer to what is Base damage explicitly.
Neither do wiki nor forums.

So if it is not that big of a secret I would prefer to know how to calculete this topic.

My main suggestion - to add another pop-up text block just for Base damage in game. Reason: it become frustrating to understand what your character really needs, especially if there is multiple damage types on the weapon and damage conversion from various sources.

Also I would like to give an example that frustrates me personally.

0) Wiki, forum posts and other sites are all agrees on order of operations while calculating the damage.
In short it is stated as:
1-st (Base damage calculation) -->
2-nd (Conversions and "Gain as" rules) -->
3-rd (damage modifiers rules - aka increases,more, esc) -->
4-th (other damage modifiers, like critical strikes, double damage, esc)

For the example below I do not take 4-th step into account at all. Let's imagine that there is no critical\double damage modifiers.

1) Craracter uses melee weapon and performs an attacks.
Attack deals 100% damage and have 100% added damage effectivness.
This attack is counted as empowered.
Currently character has no equipment exept this weapon.
This melee weapon has:
100 white physical damage (I mean that this is the damage you see on common item with no modifiers of any kind)

2) Let's gear up our character.

Now
Hypothetical Weapon have modificators on itself:
-- 120% increased physical damage
-- 50% increased Elemental Damage with Attacks
-- Empowered Attacks deal 80% increased Damage
-- Adds 50 to 50 Fire Damage

Other armor equipment grants:
-- Adds 16 damage to attacks

Passive skill tree granst:
-- 100% increased physical damage
-- 200% increased elemental damage
-- 10% increased damage with empowered attacks


Questions:
I) How much damage 1 successfull hit with this hypothetical weapon will make?

II) How does the actual formula for damage calculation looks like?

III) [For the stated example where a single attack performed and is Empowered]
Is there any practical difference between
(120% increased physical damage)
and
(50% increased Elemental Damage with Attacks)
and
(Empowered Attacks deal 80% increased Damage)
?

Did these increases apply in the same position in formula (for thier damage types respectively) or there is difference and some are forming Base damage while others not?

Explanation:


IV) Same question as III with a change - now character have Avatar of fire (75% of all damage converted to Fire. Deal no non-fire damage.).
Will this change affect Base damage in any way?


Thank you for your attention.
Any help regarding the topic will help. I will try to add info into wiki if there is will be a valid information.

First u have to differentiate between local and global modifiers on weapons.

"% increased physical damage" is local to the weapon, which means in ur example 100 base weapon damage*2.20 (120% increased). Ur new base weapon damage is 220.
The same applies to flat damage, like the fire damage. Ur weapon now deals 220 physical and 50 fire base damage.

%increased elemental damage and empowered attacks deal %increased damage are global modifiers. They are additive with all increased mods on ur other items and the passive skill tree.
Flat damage from gear is just another source of base damage that gets increased by ur modifiers and added on top of the weapon damage after calculations.

Let's say for the sake of not being too hard to calculate that ur attack converts all damage to fire damage. Now u're having 270 base fire damage.
Next step is u're adding all ur increased damage together.
50% increased elemental damage with attack + 80% empowered attacks + 200% increased elemental damage + 10% increased empowered = 340% global increased damage for empowered elemental attacks
(I think the increased physical damage doesn't apply because of the conversion)

Now u just multiply ur base damage with the combined damage increases:
Base damage 270 * 4.4 = 1188
Added damage 16 * 4.4 = 70.4
Hit damage = 1188 + 70.4 = 1258.4

If u're using Avatar of Fire, it's basically 75% of that.

If u want to calculate a partly elemental and partly physical hit, then u have to apply the physical increases to the phys part and the elemental increases to the ele part. Empowered increases count for each.

I hope that was understandable.

/edit: U didn't specifically ask, but "more" damage works differently from "increased". "more" is always multiplicative instead of additive like "increased". So there is no diminishing return.

Why not import such data to Pob and you can check calculations there also you can change stats on your eq easily and see how damage changes

"

ryszek#5266 wrote:

Why not import such data to Pob and you can check calculations there also you can change stats on your eq easily and see how damage changes

It's never bad to try to understand how things work :)
Much easier to make changes to ur build without having to check everything through pob. Also PoB is not always up to date before league launches, so having theoretical knowledge helps.

"

Sadaukar#2191 wrote:

First u have to differentiate between local and global modifiers on weapons.

. . . .

%increased elemental damage and empowered attacks deal %increased damage are global modifiers. They are additive with all increased mods on ur other items and the passive skill tree.
Flat damage from gear is just another source of base damage that gets increased by ur modifiers and added on top of the weapon damage after calculations.

. . . .

Now u just multiply ur base damage with the combined damage increases:
Base damage 270 * 4.4 = 1188
Added damage 16 * 4.4 = 70.4
Hit damage = 1188 + 70.4 = 1258.4

Thank you very much. This is explaining much.

One more question.
Do I understand it correctly, that all "Add # type_damage to attacks" that can be found on armour and jewellery is not the same as "Adds # to # type_Damage" ?

If so.. then it is seems like making full physical damage on the weapon is the only reasonable way to play... As through it gives the highest base damage?

ehhh.... well...
And I was thinking I made an upgrade to my build.

But, again, thank you.

Correct.

The added damage on weapons, either physical or elemental, is directly added to ur base damage. Added damage on armour/jewelry is seperate like I explained before.

It is still a good stat, but nowhere near the same as on weapons.

U don't need to make a physical weapon necessarily. Weapons with 2-3 high flat elemental damage rolls can also be very strong within the appropriate build. Phys is more straight-lined tho, because it fits in almost all builds.

"

The added damage on weapons, either physical or elemental, is directly added to ur base damage. Added damage on armour/jewelry is seperate like I explained before.

Added damage from elsewhere is also added to your base damage.