I will not be returning to POE2 till some major changes happen

Honestly i can't take this game anymore between the massive amount of bots being used, the RMT just ramping up more and more every league because nothing is being done. Exploits getting abused with 0 consequences or if there is its never clear what "exploits" you can get away with, with bans being handed out over one thing but not another. So if you have any sort of integrity or moral code that something shouldnt be done cuz its not intended you get punished for it.

Should i just use a 2nd account and a bot program to flip items on trade all day like so many players are at this point. Should i use an unintended interaction with game mechanics and pray i dont get banned. I mean i could just buy another account. Is there any real consequences to any of these things you shouldnt be doing. I in fact know of several players who openly admit to RMTing in chat and they are still playing.

This game has 0 respect for the normal player who just wants to play how its meant to be played.

Don't even get me started on why we still even have gold implemented in the game? oh its to deter bots and other bad trade behavior? yea my ass there are bot programs that just abuse expedition buying tokens on exchange and then using rog to cycle thru items and vendor the rares that appear to make afk gold. Or how about the fact that you can just buy gold from other players doing castaway maps. The entire system is hugely flawed and just dampens the entire game.

+1
I'm not typical arpg player cos i don't have time and will to make phd of game this huge. But I will say this-I never played a game with that much fu.ed up economy-or rat race as you can call it.

It's crazy I even see RMT ads for the second wind private league

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GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

Should i just use a 2nd account and a bot program to flip items on trade all day like so many players are at this point.

Asking whether or not you should create something that automates has a pretty obvious answer to it.

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GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

I in fact know of several players who openly admit to RMTing in chat and they are still playing.

Report them then to the proper channels. People get banned in chat from the game for bringing up religion so either noone is reporting them, or this story is just a story.

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GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

This game has 0 respect for the normal player who just wants to play how its meant to be played.

I dont know, seems fine to me.

If your entire enjoyment and time investment is dictated on an online ARPG/MMO having bots or not. No online game ever will please you.


And you should stop 40/40ing POE1 as the problem is 10x worse there.

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GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

Honestly i can't take this game anymore between the massive amount of bots being used, the RMT just ramping up more and more every league because nothing is being done. Exploits getting abused with 0 consequences or if there is its never clear what "exploits" you can get away with, with bans being handed out over one thing but not another. So if you have any sort of integrity or moral code that something shouldnt be done cuz its not intended you get punished for it.

Should i just use a 2nd account and a bot program to flip items on trade all day like so many players are at this point. Should i use an unintended interaction with game mechanics and pray i dont get banned. I mean i could just buy another account. Is there any real consequences to any of these things you shouldnt be doing. I in fact know of several players who openly admit to RMTing in chat and they are still playing.

This game has 0 respect for the normal player who just wants to play how its meant to be played.

Don't even get me started on why we still even have gold implemented in the game? oh its to deter bots and other bad trade behavior? yea my ass there are bot programs that just abuse expedition buying tokens on exchange and then using rog to cycle thru items and vendor the rares that appear to make afk gold. Or how about the fact that you can just buy gold from other players doing castaway maps. The entire system is hugely flawed and just dampens the entire game.

You are right on many things... They should have enough data as the game is server authoritative to connect to a neural network and start clearing the path...

But the problem is also the mentality, a pro elitist stance also encourages people to not fall behind, and RMT does play a huge role on avoiding staying behind...

I spent many time in craft simulators to see how the game is rigged to give gear with crap modifiers. This is very bad and also encourages RMT. The whole game is about gambling, it is only normal that RMT plays a huge role in the ecosystem, specially when no mitigation is on place.

I don't think things are going to change, there is only one solution for this issue if GGG remains adamant in not doing anything...

Players unit and through sheer power of will and time build a structure big enough to outfarm and take over the economy to devalue the earnings of bot farmers and RMT.

For me personally, SSF would work if crafting was more deterministic and if the weight of certain modifiers on gear were tunned up for more reasonable gear. The way it is currently isn't worth it.

I personally start to believe the time ROI is trash on this game... Doesn't seem to be mechanic related, but by design... Which is a huge red flag.

You have 40/40, which means you are a very important piece on the economy, bringing items to the market. If the flow stops, the economy shatters... Economic embargo is also an option. What is needed is player unity on this front for a huge pushback on RMT, attack directly their earnings 💪

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GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

the RMT just ramping up more and more every league

It would help if you provided data. Have you submitted evidence to support? How do you know it's happening?

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DistributedAutomaton#5739 wrote:

"

GreatWhiteRawr#4735 wrote:

the RMT just ramping up more and more every league

It would help if you provided data. Have you submitted evidence to support? How do you know it's happening?

We both know that the only evidence exists only on GGG side, which I expect that a server authoritative architecture produces, on the RMT site databases and discord.

But you have a few hints... It's blatant all over YouTube on the form of adds, on videos showing entire stashes being bought by a single person, etc... RMT is a real thing...

GGG hand (and a lot of the industry) will be forced to stop being complacent on RMT.

For your reference, you should investigate the Lopez Report, which is giving birth to a new set of legislation in the EU... Specially the DSA and DFA.

It's not smart play anymore 😎, it's fraud, capital blanking and in some cases human rights violations. The next year's will for sure change a few things for the RMT cartels and side gigs... The industry will most likely apply the harshest rules world wide instead of making a specific version for a zone like the EU, which is big enough to justify it, but it's expensive.


For reference: EU's Lopez Report (2022/2180(INI))

This is going to shape gaming industry 💪

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scaeva_#9735 wrote:

human rights violations

That's an attempt to curb the existence of digital sweatshops. Interesting to me, Old School Runescape appears to be one of the primary sweatshop targets.

I think the Digital Fairness Act is more significant than the Lopez Report at this point. I don't understand the EU process, but it doesn't look as though there will be a vote on the DFA until at least September 2026. So there's probably at least a year before GGG/Tencent needs to do anything. I agree with you though, big picture. They'll need some sort of formal audit/detection/reporting structure by 2027, unless there's a big surprise with the DFA.

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DistributedAutomaton#5739 wrote:

"

scaeva_#9735 wrote:

human rights violations

That's an attempt to curb the existence of digital sweatshops. Interesting to me, Old School Runescape appears to be one of the primary sweatshop targets.

I think the Digital Fairness Act is more significant than the Lopez Report at this point. I don't understand the EU process, but it doesn't look as though there will be a vote on the DFA until at least September 2026. So there's probably at least a year before GGG/Tencent needs to do anything. I agree with you though, big picture. They'll need some sort of formal audit/detection/reporting structure by 2027, unless there's a big surprise with the DFA.

World of Warcraft became a known example for the digital sweatshops in China and South America. Blizzard managed to decrease a lot the revenue of RMT gold by introducing a 1 month subscription token that could be sold by gold in game. This greatly devalued the value of gold. I stopped playing a long ago WoW, but back then it made a difference.

EU law won't end the issues, but it will place companies under pressure, the wild west needs to stop at some point. The Lopez Report was what triggered DSA and DFA, it's vale comes that videogames already move a huge industry and a huge underground market.

I don't know much about RMT in PoE, the only reference I got was actually related to World of Warcraft and the Taiwanese Bot Mafia, which also listed PoE alongside several other titles.

What I do know very well was the carry/win trading on Destiny 2 underground. Based on that, I can extrapolate how things work here.

On a tech level, it's a long attrition war (and expensive) for a studio to fight bots and RMT. I do get that. But entering the era of neural networks, petabytes of granular trade information and patterns can lead to identify mule accounts and high frequency trade accounts... But someone needs to act on that... It will become worst once the game goes free to play. Removing only on high profile cartels/syndicates would already be a huge victory. The small guys, or the side gigs won't be able to hold for long... Only legislation can end this trend, and either fraud and money laundering are good points to start, as RMT hardly can be legit businesses. The human rights violations, like the case of WoW with prisoners being forced to farm gold have no standing here (or at least I hope).

But GGG is not doing enough... In fact, due to how some gear modifiers weight so low compared to useless modifiers, one could even thing they are creating the perfect opportunity for RMT underworld markets. If they can become in the future responsible for that and if that leads to financial crimes, I do agree. As a European, RMT violates principles I believe, like equality and equal opportunities.