Crafting is destroying the game economy

Love the new crafting system for the most part except theres just one problem...theres no chase uniques...no chase items at all hardly..everyones chasing crafting mats and thats it...i literally left an astramentis on the ground because im not wasting my time picking things up that are worthless...something worth less than a div is a waste of time.

Crafting has caused ALL items that aren't perfect have zero value. Anyone who has reached end game and has learned the crafting system can all confirm this...all of us have filtered out EVERYTHING except div drops in our filters. Exalts are worthless, the only thing worth anything at this point is DIV and PERFECT crafted items and i mean they msut be perfect in order to sell for any amount worth putting up there.

Stop promising great loot and then lo and behold there is no chase items...

Map bosses dont ever drop anything good either almost 100% of their drops gets filtered out because its not worth picking up even t5 rares get left out i dont even want to see them on the ground just cluttering my screen.

divs are approaching over 1k exalts that is just wild. nothing has any value except crafting mats.

mapping alone isnt a good time you wont get much drops u are punished for solo play for sure. Run with an aurabot and then you'll see what im saying.

I want you to understand that the higher the supply of desirable things the cheaper they become, and the cheaper they become, the better.

If crafting was actually doing that, that would be amazing.

But it's not.
Things are still far more expensive than they should be, and the currencies themselves are still too rare, making it functionally impossible for 99% of players to ever engage with crafting in the first place.

Not to mention the fact that the game doesn't have any actual crafting yet.
Just different color slot machines.
Slot machines the majority of players can't afford to interact with, because again, the crafting materials are too rare and slow to obtain in the first place.

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BlindRage83#4941 wrote:

Crafting is destroying the game economy

You are serious?
PoE2 has no crafting - this what exists is called Cassino Slot Machine system.

Real crafting will never appear in PoE2 because this game is based on Trade system.

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

I want you to understand that the higher the supply of desirable things the cheaper they become, and the cheaper they become, the better.

You aren't accounting for inflation. The game doesn't have enough currency sinks to keep up with how many are being accumulated. As long as the item is very desirable, it will always go up in price.

Also the game does have actual crafting. There are plenty of great items you can deterministically make from nothing but just an item base. The process is also just extremely unintuitive and pretty much requires the use of 3rd party websites to understand affix tags, modifier levels and all that stuff especially for beginners.

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DarkDredd#2184 wrote:

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BlindRage83#4941 wrote:

Crafting is destroying the game economy

You are serious?
PoE2 has no crafting - this what exists is called Cassino Slot Machine system.

Real crafting will never appear in PoE2 because this game is based on Trade system.

Again, not true. I'm convinced half the people who post here aren't even actively playing the game.

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DreamAgain#4820 wrote:

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

I want you to understand that the higher the supply of desirable things the cheaper they become, and the cheaper they become, the better.

You aren't accounting for inflation. The game doesn't have enough currency sinks to keep up with how many are being accumulated. As long as the item is very desirable, it will always go up in price.

Also the game does have actual crafting. There are plenty of great items you can deterministically make from nothing but just an item base. The process is also just extremely unintuitive and pretty much requires the use of 3rd party websites to understand affix tags, modifier levels and all that stuff especially for beginners.

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DarkDredd#2184 wrote:

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BlindRage83#4941 wrote:

Crafting is destroying the game economy

You are serious?
PoE2 has no crafting - this what exists is called Cassino Slot Machine system.

Real crafting will never appear in PoE2 because this game is based on Trade system.

Again, not true. I'm convinced half the people who post here aren't even actively playing the game.

99.99% of players have no perfect orbs, no crafting omens, minimal to no divines, no perfect essences, and will still be in that situation when the league ends.

I am absolutely accounting for inflation.
I am also accounting for the fact, that as already said, the currencies and crafting materials are too rare, too hard and late to obtain.
So most players will never have any in the first place.
Hard to care about a lack of a currency sink when players aren't getting currency to sink in the first place.

There's inflation, when currency there's too much of gets even more abundant.
And there's Winflation, when currency there's not enough of is becoming less scarce.
We could use the latter. Easier and earlier to obtain currencies so people other than the man playing 14 hours a day 7 days a week can have some.

nothing in our crafting is deterministic. That is the main thing to understand about it.
Those multi colored slot machines I was talking about referred to all the omens, all the desecration bones, all the orbs, the recombinator, and the reforger. It's all trash.

Omens of Hom functionally don't exist because most players will see the league end without ever getting one. They're too rare and too late to obtain.
They're also borderline useless, because all they do is edit the slot machine while keeping it a slot machine. The crafting is still an attempt at rng that won't give you want you want, even while using every omen that's supposed to help get what you want.
Combining the Homoogenizing for type matching, Sinistral/Dextral for forcing prefix/suffix, Greater for doing 2 affixes at once with the other effects, and using a Perfect Exalt, and keeping omens of whittling on hand for trying to target removals afterword, might all sound useful on paper, but in practice even after doing all that the the end result is the item ends up not being what was wanted, and you run out of currencies to try to fix it. And most people will never be able to do that first attempt before trying to fix it anyway, because they won't be able to loot or afford to buy those materials before the league is over.

Deterministic crafting would mean a crafting bench that allows you to directly select and force the EXACT affixes you want, without any rng leaving a chance to get anything other than the exact thing you wanted.
And it would have to be usable without being a no lifer who achieves Bezos level wealth first.

More advanced crafting, to understand modifier levels (using omen of whittling), definitely needs a 3rd party system. And GGG should absolutely fix this.

Tags can largely be intuited. Attack/damage/defense/speed/mana/health/elemental/etc, can be interpreted through experience and a bit of thinking. But still need a 3rd party reference to fully grasp and manipulate in-game.

The truth is, crafting in PoE 1 and 2 is complex, and does take some effort to understand the interactions and systems at play. That's even with the simplicity PoE 2 has compared to PoE 1. Many players enjoy that, many players don't and instead just want to pick up loot and sell those stupid orbs with faces on them for a REAL item. (I'm the former, I love crafting.)

And crafting as a whole isn't destroying the economy. In fact, there are still well over 30k+ players online (via steam alone) trading and playing right now. In this specific case, it's my guess that the 0.3.1 patch largely ruined end-game super juicing, as well as alter the drop rates of tablets as a whole. The result being a far "worse-than-usual" end of league economy slow down. This would have been mitigated by merchant tabs, except the change in tablet drop rate meant any tablets that were up before are gone because their prices have skyrocketed since the patch.

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

Deterministic crafting would mean a crafting bench that allows you to directly select and force the EXACT affixes you want, without any rng leaving a chance to get anything other than the exact thing you wanted.
And it would have to be usable without being a no lifer who achieves Bezos level wealth first.

While I agree with most of your point on scarcity being the barrier to most people being able to even meaningfully engage with crafting, there certainly is deterministic crafting. There are piles of videos of people crafting specific gear pieces with specific affixes (to an extent), but again to your point, that is essentially only for the 1% that have ALL the omen/orb/abyss crafting options at their disposal, and there is still a minimal amount or RNG baked into it. given someone has the mats we do actually have a decent amount of agency over crafting. It's not nearly as "spin to win" as it was in .1 IMO.

IDK what the answer is though. If we had a purely deterministic crafting table everyone would just craft their ideal gear, and trade would largely be irrelevant. You could gate-keep that by keeping the crafting mats as rare as they are so people have to put in the work to craft top-tier items, but then we'd probably just be exactly where we already are I think where the ability is there, but most don't have the mats to accomplish anything.

I can honestly say Ive never tried end game crafting as I dont understand all the affix /suffix stuff and Ive played this league since day one and still have NOT found 1 div yet. I play solo so I dont expect ill find many if any div this league because IM level 80 something and dont want to play any more anyways. I find buying things with exalts much easier anyways.

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Johnny_Hotbody#4829 wrote:

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

Deterministic crafting would mean a crafting bench that allows you to directly select and force the EXACT affixes you want, without any rng leaving a chance to get anything other than the exact thing you wanted.
And it would have to be usable without being a no lifer who achieves Bezos level wealth first.

While I agree with most of your point on scarcity being the barrier to most people being able to even meaningfully engage with crafting, there certainly is deterministic crafting. There are piles of videos of people crafting specific gear pieces with specific affixes (to an extent), but again to your point, that is essentially only for the 1% that have ALL the omen/orb/abyss crafting options at their disposal, and there is still a minimal amount or RNG baked into it. given someone has the mats we do actually have a decent amount of agency over crafting. It's not nearly as "spin to win" as it was in .1 IMO.

IDK what the answer is though. If we had a purely deterministic crafting table everyone would just craft their ideal gear, and trade would largely be irrelevant. You could gate-keep that by keeping the crafting mats as rare as they are so people have to put in the work to craft top-tier items, but then we'd probably just be exactly where we already are I think where the ability is there, but most don't have the mats to accomplish anything.

""there certainly is deterministic crafting. There are piles of videos of people crafting specific gear pieces with specific affixes (to an extent) ...... and there is still a minimal amount or RNG baked into it.""

If there was deterministic crafting, there would be no reason to add "to an extent" to that statement, and the latter statement about RNG baked in would not be included.

But thank you for being someone who actually acknowledges that everything about crafting is essentially moot on account of people not being able to afford to engage with it in the first place.

Crafting is supposed to be the bad luck protection that lets you acquire the gear you want, guaranteed, if looting never does. It's failing at that.