Thoughts on ARPG game design

I’m starting to question the vision of Path of Exile 2. Honestly, I feel a bit “catfished.” It was originally promoted as slow, meaningful, and combo-driven combat — but it’s drifting toward a one-button or piano-key playstyle.

So, what is an action RPG?
It’s not turn-based. Technically, from the computer’s point of view, it is turn-based — but the turns happen so fast that the human brain perceives it as real time.

Turn-based RPGs favor strategy. There’s loot, there are meaningful builds, but the player has all the time in the world to decide how to proceed. Actions can be complex and based on dozens of potential choices. Time is not a factor.

Action RPGs favor reaction. There’s still loot and meaningful builds, but players must make decisions in real time. This naturally limits how many things a player can control at once. Which raises the key question: How much time should a player have to respond?

There’s also a third category — real-time with pause — where the player can adjust pacing and tactics on demand.

Let’s take The Witcher 3 as an example. It’s an RPG, and since it’s not turn-based, it qualifies as an action RPG. Yet combat still involves several deliberate choices: attack, block, parry, use an item, cast a spell, etc. Because players have so much agency in real time, they shouldn’t be overwhelmed with enemies. In that game, 3v1 feels challenging, and 5v1 feels extreme.

Now compare that to Diablo or Path of Exile 1. These are also action RPGs — but players are routinely surrounded by 20–50 monsters, sometimes even more. How can a player meaningfully react to that in real time?
They can’t — so the game compensates by reducing player agency. Blocking and parrying become passive stats. Item use is simplified to a few toggles or a potion. Skill use is narrowed to a small handful of abilities. Because of the intensity and volume of enemies, combat devolves into one or two active skills plus auras.

I thought Path of Exile 2 was meant to bridge that gap — faster than The Witcher 3, but slower and more deliberate than Diablo or PoE1. That seemed true for Act 1, mostly true for Act 2, and partially true for Act 3. But as the player progresses, this balance erodes. Combat again devolves into a one- or two-button rotation with auras, plus maybe a couple of situational abilities for boss fights.
Why? Because of enemy speed and density. When you’re rushed by twenty enemies, you simply don’t have time to strategize — you have time to press one or two buttons.

I think this is a missed opportunity. PoE1 could have remained the fast, chaotic blaster game, while PoE2 could have embraced a more strategic pace — offering a slower, more tactical experience with genuine player agency. Instead, PoE2 is gradually turning back into PoE1 with every update.

It’s still a great game, and I’ll play during release windows. But as someone who’s been playing ARPGs since Diablo 1, I was hoping for real innovation in the genre. We already have plenty of ARPGs that limit player agency — or give the illusion of it — only for the pace and density of combat to make thoughtful play impossible.

I tried to imagine POE2 as you've described and I got bored.

Anyway, I've played ARPGs since the 90's.

I understand what you're saying but I wouldn't consider that innovation on the genre, but rather going back to the roots. Things have changed a lot.

It's important to remember that this "meaningful combat" and slow-paced approach was a philosophy adopted after Chris had begun to leave the company. When he finally left in 2023, they went all-in on this superficially Souls-like variant of a game they showed us back in 2019 that was totally different.

So, if anything, they're just going back to what POE2 was initially pitched as, a true successor to Path of Exile.

They tried the Souls-like thing and it didn't work.

Just proposing two questions as I'm not sure if they have any meaning:

1) how many players are actually out there are waiting for such a game.
2) how many of those players are willing to buy such game and/or in-game products, financially supporting some company (any company really).

I believe there is a demographic out there who wants what you described. Idk how big / medium / small this demographic is as this is beyond me, but I believe this is a real group of people. But I am very curious about my second question so if anyone has information please share.

Go watch an average non-boss fight in a playthrough video of Dark Souls 1/2/3.

Do you see 50 enemies on screen? No
Do you see those enemies moving at light speed relative to you making dodging near impossible? No

So how can GGG state that a screen full of fast enemies leads to "slow methodical gameplay"?

Why does the "slow methodical gameplay" game release a league (rise of abyssal) with constantly spawning hordes of monsters?

If Jonathan and friends were serious about "THE VISION" for POE2, they would set a hard limit that no combat situation would ever involve more than 5-6 enemies at a time.

The ship has already has already sailed into another dimension.

POE2 is morphing into a slowed down version of POE1 with WASD. I'll paraphrase Ben's question again from December of last year: "I don't understand why POE2 exists".

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mnieradko#6070 wrote:

Go watch an average non-boss fight in a playthrough video of Dark Souls 1/2/3.

Do you see 50 enemies on screen? No
Do you see those enemies moving at light speed relative to you making dodging near impossible? No

So how can GGG state that a screen full of fast enemies leads to "slow methodical gameplay"?

Why does the "slow methodical gameplay" game release a league (rise of abyssal) with constantly spawning hordes of monsters?

If Jonathan and friends were serious about "THE VISION" for POE2, they would set a hard limit that no combat situation would ever involve more than 5-6 enemies at a time.

as soon as they copied the skeleton wheel enemies from dark souls is when the shift from Path of Exile to Path of Souls started, in my own head anyway. I think it's cool they like Dark Souls but man I didn't want to stop playing Dark Souls and load up Path of Exile just to play another Souls game all night. I hope the soulslike genre starts dying off soon but I'm not sure where we go in the next evolution of Ocarina of Time combat

There is no "soulslike" game out there that combines brutally hard, but fair, enemies with an extremely high number of those enemies at the same time. Because then the player quickly realizes that the only way to progress is to clear the entire screen of enemies at a time from a distance.

In a similar vein, why does POE2 want slow-moving characters (relative to POE1) combined with gigantic confusing map layouts? Slow goes with small, and fast goes with large. Get it right.

You want combo-based gameplay where you sequence out your attacks strategically? Fine, but you're not doing it in any gameplay situation approximating "why does my game move like a PowerPoint slideshow?"

The game doesn't know what it wants to be. If it devolves into some kind of "this is like POE1 but not really" the question then remains of why POE2 exists.

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austin767#3816 wrote:

So, what is an action RPG?
It’s not turn-based. Technically, from the computer’s point of view, it is turn-based — but the turns happen so fast that the human brain perceives it as real time.

correct, what you just described in Diablo2, play D2R Classic and see how the 'unachievable' was achieved over 20 years ago, and if you play long enough you will see why poe1/2 fails so hard at it.

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kdubbarizzle#7578 wrote:

Just proposing two questions as I'm not sure if they have any meaning:

1) how many players are actually out there are waiting for such a game.
2) how many of those players are willing to buy such game and/or in-game products, financially supporting some company (any company really).

I believe there is a demographic out there who wants what you described. Idk how big / medium / small this demographic is as this is beyond me, but I believe this is a real group of people. But I am very curious about my second question so if anyone has information please share.

take a look at initial sales of poe2, because that's the game GGG was advertising.

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Imaginaerum#5568 wrote:

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mnieradko#6070 wrote:

Go watch an average non-boss fight in a playthrough video of Dark Souls 1/2/3.

Do you see 50 enemies on screen? No
Do you see those enemies moving at light speed relative to you making dodging near impossible? No

So how can GGG state that a screen full of fast enemies leads to "slow methodical gameplay"?

Why does the "slow methodical gameplay" game release a league (rise of abyssal) with constantly spawning hordes of monsters?

If Jonathan and friends were serious about "THE VISION" for POE2, they would set a hard limit that no combat situation would ever involve more than 5-6 enemies at a time.

as soon as they copied the skeleton wheel enemies from dark souls is when the shift from Path of Exile to Path of Souls started, in my own head anyway. I think it's cool they like Dark Souls but man I didn't want to stop playing Dark Souls and load up Path of Exile just to play another Souls game all night. I hope the soulslike genre starts dying off soon but I'm not sure where we go in the next evolution of Ocarina of Time combat

I agree. Let FromSoftware be FromSoftware. Not every ARPG needs to be a Souls-like.

My dream arpg would have the play style of maple story with the complexity and depth of poe. Not sure if there would be enough people like me to make designing an arpg like that worth it. But if I ever get around to making my own game that's what it will be like.

Some of the times when I'm really bored and don't have anything to do I day dream about it.

i would say POE2 DID succeed in making the game slow and deliberate. playing on release, i went 2h mace.

with proper gearing i could dance around balbala slapping her with my mace and dodging her attacks skillfully.

better gear let me make more mistakes and take her down faster.

that is how i imagined a perfect d-like would be. also i m using d-like as that is what poe is. arpg is too broad.

the issue with poe2 is that ggg did not stop at the campaign. they introduced the end game directly.

this meant that theres no room to test out skills from the early game and tweak the numbers.

this led to EVERYTHING ELSE simply out performing actual trumelee.

GGG sacrificed POE1 to make POE2 separate so that they could make it slow/deliberate and accommodate truemelee.

they also made decisions to limit player movespeed/life. which i understand it. when things are limited, they can balance the game better.

but they let ES go bonkers? doesnt make sense.

currently there are NO modern d-likes that really fit into the slow and deliberate category. GGG tried, and actually succeeded. but they saw the feedback and saw the majority LOVED the faster zoomy gameplay. POE2 now is becoming another POE1. or already has become one.

there are actually d-likes that fit the slow and deliberate game play. namely titan quest 2 (has some zoominess), no rest for the wicked (more of its own thing than a d-like), and Oniro (mobile only and has some P2W features).

tbh i've given up on the genre. only tq2 and oniro are the current games that are close to what i want in a d-like.