Mortar Cannon mechs

So... I can't figure out how it works...
1)In description of skill we have +100% increased Cooldown recovery. I use cluster grenades in my cannon. Cluster grenades have 2 charges and 10sec CD. So, after canon launched 2 granedes it need to count 5 secs (10 sec - 100%CDR) and then launch another 2, but this won't happen. Even I have more of CDR in my tree and passive jewel skill linked. What do I missunderstand?
2)Tactician have "Mortar,Ready!" passive, wich gives 30% more skill speed for totems. What for? if it also have "totems only use skills then u do"? and it can't be used with "shockburst rounds" and other like fast-shooting skills? It's more than debuff... It is uslees at all, if we look again at p.1) - we just have 2 grenads, thats all. I mean, why I need fast skill use on totems and dependence on my skill use, if they only have two launches?

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BOPOTHuK#1076 wrote:

So, after canon launched 2 granedes it need to count 5 secs (10 sec - 100%CDR) and then launch another 2, but this won't happen.

That's not how cooldowns with multiple charges work. Every cooldown only recharges one charge, and it starts as soon as the skill is used once.

So once your cannon shoots one grenade the cooldown starts to recharge that one charge. Then it shoots a second time but that does not affect the cooldown at all. The second shot uses your second (and last) charge, so you have to wait until the cooldown is finished to shoot a third time. If you stop shooting after the 2nd shot then the cooldown will run twice to recharge both of your charges.

So basically the multiple charges are only useful for burst damage after a longer time out of combat that allows multiple charges to be recharged. If you fire continuously you will only be able to sustain one shot per cooldown (every 5 seconds in your example).

What I don't know is how this works with multiple mortars, or if you create a new one to replace an old one. Does every instance of the mortar have its own charges and cooldowns, or are they shared globally or something? Not sure, but I think that each new mortar you create starts with full charges and has its own cooldown.

So you mean that after the 2nd shot mortar cannon gets 10 secs of CD instead of 5?

Even so, why did the GGG point out the skill's ability to reduce cooldown? And this also applies to my second question above.
Don't you think it's like a trap (instead of real ascendency buff)? Tactian totem build seems to be a just strange totem spaming....

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BOPOTHuK#1076 wrote:

So you mean that after the 2nd shot mortar cannon gets 10 secs of CD instead of 5?

I mean that 5 seconds after the first shot one more shot will be available, and 5 seconds after that another one. The shots recharge one after another and each one takes 5 seconds.

To see for yourself how it works you can just equip the grenade skill directly (not in the mortar meta skill). This way you can see the cooldown and remaining shots in the skill bar. The functionality is the same when it is socketed in the mortar, but the recharge is faster due to the increased cooldown recovery.

I play Tactician with mortars and it works well for me. But I'm not using the "Cannons, ready!" Ascendancy passive. However, I get +1 Totem from "Artillery Strike" on the passive tree.

Canons Ready is really bad IMO - way to ruin what could have been a nice ascendancy node by adding such a terrible downside.

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twostroketom#5281 wrote:

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BOPOTHuK#1076 wrote:

So you mean that after the 2nd shot mortar cannon gets 10 secs of CD instead of 5?

I mean that 5 seconds after the first shot one more shot will be available, and 5 seconds after that another one. The shots recharge one after another and each one takes 5 seconds.

To see for yourself how it works you can just equip the grenade skill directly (not in the mortar meta skill). This way you can see the cooldown and remaining shots in the skill bar. The functionality is the same when it is socketed in the mortar, but the recharge is faster due to the increased cooldown recovery.

I play Tactician with mortars and it works well for me. But I'm not using the "Cannons, ready!" Ascendancy passive. However, I get +1 Totem from "Artillery Strike" on the passive tree.

I understand it all, and it means that 8 sec canon MUST to shot at least 3 times:
2 shots (~1.5....2 sec) + 5 sec CD < 8sec
So do you have this result?
I'll try to unspec Canons Ready, and check if it will give another result too...

Allright, my fault. It realy does 3 shots. Without Cannons Ready I can see it cleary. It still works with the perk, but it's harder to reproduce.
But it still is not efficient (I mean trying to make more shots), because 3rd shot timing is pain in ass. So much better must be use of second wind and payload supports: we have 4 shots + 50% for each shot to double detonation...
Nevertheless, Cannons Ready is realy strange perk... Next perk Strategic Embankments is week for canons too: poe.ninja says that only 3% of tacticians use it...

To start as a friendly reminder you can always review the full breakdown details of a skill even when it is socketed into a meta skill to view it's stats as it is inside of the meta gem.

As you mentioned we do get 100% CDR on the socketed grenade in the cannon, and for the most part, each grenade skill gem quality also provides CDR for that grenade. You can see this by reviewing the Cooldown time of your grenade inside of the cannon and reviewing the skill details. In regards to uses, yes, for cluster we only get our 2 charges. If you notice, each new totem fires right? Therefore you know they do not each share charge count. That would be a bit rough understandably since if you could place 3 totems but only have 2 charges of the socketed skills it would have little to no use at all. Knowing this we know each totem placement gives it fresh charges for the socketed grenade(s). With this in mind, as it may not be intended but knowing how other ballista totems work I don't believe it is an unintended feature, you can simply "refresh" your charges by replacing your totems to get your grenade charges back, simply at the cost of the totem's skill cost.

Now, in relation to Tact ascensions, keep in mind skills have their own innate skill speed multiplier. I believe for all grenades that speed is only 75% skill speed. Meaning we lose a bit of speed at the base skill level, and again inside of the Cannon. What this realing means for Cannons, ready! is that as it states anytime it attacks it will initiate an attack based on all the attack and skill speed modifiers it has (you can also see the attack speed IIRC in the detail skill view of the socketed grenade in the Cannon similar to the CD time and other values). As an example, if you use Rapid Fire to attack as quickly as possible with AS support gems, this is not going to mean your totems are also firing at that rate, but that they will fire based on their attack rate as soon as they can and you have attacked. Rather, the faster you attack, the faster the totem's will attack in relation to their own skill speed. These also do not "hold charges" to where you can fire 3 times and expect the totem to fire 3 times afterwards. Usually, it's rather that it will attack on the 1st and 3rd shot based on your AS and it's slightly lower skill speed and when those timings "line up". If you get a faster skill speed overall, and more attack speed for your "trigger" (the attack projectile to trigger Cannons Ready), you will end up with faster firing cannons.

The meat of the matter is your issue with Cooldown and charges. As I mentioned each time you place a Cannon it is a new ally/totem and thus gets a fresh batch of charges. You can modify charge count just like you can manually casting grenades with things like the second wind variant support gems with varying effects. It really just depends on how long you want your cannons down and doing work. Do you want to keep placing totems and let them fire off as much as possible? Or do you want them to be sustainable allies in your fight and not have to spend resources re-summoning them? Depending you may not care on the number of charges as long as you can replace the totem's that have discharged.

Hopefully that helps a bit with your cannon usage. Good luck.