Shouldn't experimentation be rewarded, not punished?

During the free weekend, I was playing with a couple of friends who were relatively new to poe2, not arpg's as a whole, and every single one of them used build guides. I just winged it, and of course ended up falling behind pretty quickly, but a lot of them didn't end up sticking with the game for long, and just didn't engage with it. Meanwhile, I was enjoying the game more even while struggling, because I was actually trying out things I thought seemed cool.

I understand the idea of restrictions, especially in other genres like survival games, or shorter ARPG's with much less time investment, but I feel like what draws me into POE2 is the expansive character build possibilities... but that becomes moot when you are only punished by trying to experiment with it.

People say that free respecs would make the choices meaningless, but id argue that following builds, or spending time farming gold is even more meaningless, while also being toxic/stunting creativity.

I'd love to see a game that didn't just have free respecs, but actually incentivised and rewarded players for experimenting with the skill tree, and pushed people away from using cookie cutter builds that more or less remove the main point of having the rpg elements in the first place.

I just don't get what the point is of having such an expansive skill tree and build possibilities, if interacting with it is treated like you are making a mistake?

isnt cheap cost at start but later increased respec cost?

Sounds like you got rewarded? You enjoyed the game by exploring it, your friend did not.

They used a guide, then quit, because they did 0 exploration, learned nothing by themselves and got hand-holded...BOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG no wonder they quit, that's not how you should play the game, let alone THE FIRST TIME, who play the first time with cheats? you get bored in no time, yeah...not a good idea.

I think the biggest issue is not skill respecs but skill and support gem availability. If you want to try out a different skill or different support and it doesn't work out you're just suddenly quite far behind the target value of where you should be and need to hope you drop another gem.

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StenLiveTv#3204 wrote:

Sounds like you got rewarded? You enjoyed the game by exploring it, your friend did not.

No, I stopped playing and can't even be bothered to play the game more because it feels like a complete waste of time because I just know im going to end up constantly wanting to respec to try new things and can't afford it. I stopped playing alongside them, but what was really frustrating is that I couldn't possibly keep up with them, let alone just from my time spent in menu's, but the fact that they were breezing through the game compared to me. It ruined the cooperative part of the game, and it isn't like it even retained them either.

My question is if the respec costs push people into potentially just ignoring that whole part of the game because of the grind/time investment, especially if wanting to keep up with other players, yet doesn't actually provide any meaningful reason to stick with the game, whats the point? People say it makes the choices 'meaningful' but if everyone is just rushing to the end of the game anyway and/or following builds, whats the point. If there was some push/pull or repeatable gameplay that was more realistic time wise for players then sure, but I don't feel like there is.

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I think the biggest issue is not skill respecs but skill and support gem availability. If you want to try out a different skill or different support and it doesn't work out you're just suddenly quite far behind the target value of where you should be and need to hope you drop another gem.

I feel like skill and support gems were never a problem over me constantly having no money from respeccing.

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Sounds like you got rewarded? You enjoyed the game by exploring it, your friend did not.

I didn't enjoy the game, I absolutely adore the idea of it, but I don't remotely have time to play it how I want because of the respec costs. If there was a reason for it, I wouldn't mind, not my kind of game, but I have not seen a genuine explanation of how it makes the game better, I've only seen genuine complaints about it being frustrating. Is there really someone out there who would be playing POE2 and think, "man if someone could freely respec right now id just want to quit the game"? If there was a real punishment and gameplay purpose to it, id be fine. If the purpose is to just make me... farm gold for a while? The devs don't get anything, I lose valuable time. Whats the point?

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JohnTravoltage#0674 wrote:

During the free weekend, I was playing with a couple of friends who were relatively new to poe2, not arpg's as a whole, and every single one of them used build guides. I just winged it, and of course ended up falling behind pretty quickly, but a lot of them didn't end up sticking with the game for long, and just didn't engage with it. Meanwhile, I was enjoying the game more even while struggling, because I was actually trying out things I thought seemed cool.

I understand the idea of restrictions, especially in other genres like survival games, or shorter ARPG's with much less time investment, but I feel like what draws me into POE2 is the expansive character build possibilities... but that becomes moot when you are only punished by trying to experiment with it.

People say that free respecs would make the choices meaningless, but id argue that following builds, or spending time farming gold is even more meaningless, while also being toxic/stunting creativity.

I'd love to see a game that didn't just have free respecs, but actually incentivised and rewarded players for experimenting with the skill tree, and pushed people away from using cookie cutter builds that more or less remove the main point of having the rpg elements in the first place.

I just don't get what the point is of having such an expansive skill tree and build possibilities, if interacting with it is treated like you are making a mistake?

The problem doesn't know what is a cookie cutter build and what's experimentation. So it won't know who to reward or punish. It's not against the rules to follow the meta, but I'm like you when it comes to experimenting and avoiding the meta. Yes, you need to accept that you will be behind in game because people who follow meta will have things easier for them. That's common sense.

Should we be rewarded by GGG? Nope. The reward comes when you manage to make your own build without following the meta. The reward is bragging rights. At the end of the day your friends probably don't care whether you follow or not.

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JohnTravoltage#0674 wrote:

Is there really someone out there who would be playing POE2 and think, "man if someone could freely respec right now id just want to quit the game"?

Honestly? Me.
Giving free respecs would change the meta making it all about switching around builds ad-hoc in order to fulfill whatever need the player has at any given moment.

Having the ability to make hyperfocused builds at any given time in a game where bosses that are supposed to last 2mins but instead get one-shot in half a second (sometimes not even that) would pressure the devs into tailoring upcoming content with free respecs and player power that comes with it in mind, effectively cutting out any off-meta build and killing off the purpose of such a vast opportunity for customization.

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JohnTravoltage#0674 wrote:

If there was a real punishment and gameplay purpose to it, id be fine. If the purpose is to just make me... farm gold for a while? The devs don't get anything, I lose valuable time. Whats the point?

The intent, I guess for you to enjoy the moment to moment gameplay while you're farming that gold to get the next respec.
If you don't enjoy the gameplay, the game is simply not for you.

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JohnTravoltage#0674 wrote:

If there was a reason for it, I wouldn't mind, not my kind of game, but I have not seen a genuine explanation of how it makes the game better, I've only seen genuine complaints about it being frustrating

I'm not trying to be hostile here, really, but to me it seems that the reason is there, it's just that you don't wanna accept it.