Refiners bargin needs relocating and values altering.

Its a super interesting keystone linking together synergy with tormented spirits, delve and harvest.

But its location makes it super awkward to pair with anything except ghosts and create an actual non gimmick tree.

The values are also weirdly tuned.

Lets start with the dust I believe this is the only one correctly balanced. Slow nice rate of growth constantly yet passively wonderful.

Ores on the other hand are way overturned and the only reason it isn't a problem is because 4 of the ores are basically worthless you could have infinite of them and no one would care.

If you are correctly rushing through maps it is actually super hard to make ACTUAL ORES worth doing because the volume niko gives them at the speed of "click" is honestly just way to high compared to the 10-15 second encounters.

Now Harvest. This one is so badly under tuned it comical. If you want the quick answer its you lose almost half the value. This value could be doubled and it would barely make sense in SSF. For it to be worth doing I would at least 2.5-3X the conversion ratio.


This is the end of the post unless you want an explanation for harvest conversion being terrible:

I am gonna use what is considered statically average for clarity.

I am gonna base this off 1 50m shipment that results in 2.5 mirror shards (the average).

The average crop value is 18 (12+15+18+21+24/5 =18) easy.
So we take our 50 million and divide by 18 for the estimate number of crops.

This gives us 2,777,777 crops needed for our shipment.

Now how much lifeforce would this be worth? Super easy its a 1 to 1 trade so 2,777,777 lifeforce.

How much is that much lifeforce worth (i am gonna use trade value but the is no metric on the planet you could use to make it justifiable imo)

So I am gonna take the average lifeforce value because we really don't care since it gets converted randomly so (20 for 1 c + 34 + 37.5 / 3 = 30.5 lifeforce for 1C.

So we take our lifeforce value of 2,777,777 divide it by 30.5 to get 91,074 chaos value in lifeforce for a 50m shipment.
Half it we get 45,537 chaos if you use dust.
How much is the 2.5 mirror shards worth for our average 50mill shipment?
about 25,000 chaos currently. Meaning at market value. You lose close to half the value on average. Now factor in the economical factors that would be needed to make these two just match on average and its clear how bad this is. You could double the value but are you really benefitting or just turning one currency into another with super high variance? Then factor in the cost of the atlas tree points to do this set up and then does it have any benefit over a normal harvest one? I don't think so.

I don't think it have bad location. Usually you have enough atlas points to enable any strat you want.

I agree that amount of dust is quite balanced. About "ores overtuned" - it's only a case if you are using a Niko scarab for 2.5x sulphite, and seems you also need all Kalgur "ore increase" passives, so i am not sure that it overtuned.

About lifeforce conversion - you get 1.5x crop, not 1x, so (2_777_777/ 1.5) / 30.5 = 60.7k chaos = ~404 divine. So with this keystone you guarantee lose 400 div :D and maybe got 2.5 mirror shards worth 2.5 * 74 = 185 div.

I personally send two 50m ships and got zero shards, though get lucky on third one, but still have a way less than your 2.5 shards average. But many people doesnt send 50m ships at all. And without shards Kingsmarch give ~1 div/day which is ok for new players, but for veterans it's joke. So returning to our keystone conversion - for many players it's purely lose 400 div

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felix0808#2550 wrote:

I don't think it have bad location. Usually you have enough atlas points to enable any strat you want.

I agree that amount of dust is quite balanced. About "ores overtuned" - it's only a case if you are using a Niko scarab for 2.5x sulphite, and seems you also need all Kalgur "ore increase" passives, so i am not sure that it overtuned.

About lifeforce conversion - you get 1.5x crop, not 1x, so (2_777_777/ 1.5) / 30.5 = 60.7k chaos = ~404 divine. So with this keystone you guarantee lose 400 div :D and maybe got 2.5 mirror shards worth 2.5 * 74 = 185 div.

I personally send two 50m ships and got zero shards, though get lucky on third one, but still have a way less than your 2.5 shards average. But many people doesnt send 50m ships at all. And without shards Kingsmarch give ~1 div/day which is ok for new players, but for veterans it's joke. So returning to our keystone conversion - for many players it's purely lose 400 div

I stand corrected on the conversion ratio. Good thing it doesnt really altar anything since the gap is so large.
As for ores I have found literally just niko gets more verisium then 12 miners and 6 smelters can work on. This was the essence page I was using for a majority of the league where you aiming for 2-3 minute maps. Just focused around essences with clicking altars with niko + altars for speed.
https://poeplanner.com/a/XnB

One solution comes to my mind. Instead of convertiong lifeforce to crop, the keystone should give lifeforce and crop.

It's obiously that doubling conversion rate from 1.5x to 3x doesn't help. With sulphite and items converted to dust you don't lose anything valuable. But with lifeforce you always will lose something valuable, which is not pleasant.

To balance it and prevent this keystone work as one point wonder when farming harvest, make the additional crop multy is dependant on "increased ore amount". So you need to take all "increased ore" atlas nodes in order to have profit (0.95x crop per lifeforce with all nodes)