why i like towers and no crafting????

i let AI summarize it for me!

before that i only asked if it knows what rmt is and how it works in games. the answer was satisfying

before we get to the AI part


on a personal note:
i did not tell the AI any of this and it made all its argument without me providing any information.

but in short why i decided to repost it is because it fits to my thinking ;)

my logic here is pretty simple. crafting uses crafting materials. those can be farmed with bots. crafting generates a steady influx of divines for RMT people with FARM bots. thousands. those can be used by TRADE bots to manipulate markets. BIG TIME.

without automatic juicing/farming for currency and without farming/selling crafting materials they lack 2 steady incomes of divines. to manipulate the whole market they need those steady incomes. otherwise stock and demand will be stronger than them and rmt will be on a smaller scale.

steady income of divines -> overprice all valuable items -> to expensive for casual -> casuals buy divines from them -> casuals then buy items from their tradebots -> divines back to rmt people.

towers + no crafting never gives them the initial divines to start this cycle.
at least not that easy.

the problem was culling of T1-t5 did not work. and campain dropped so little we came naked to maps. so instead of finding items we had to buy them once mapping started so thats how they got initial divines this time. thats why poe2 rmt was also quite bad in EA so far. BUT now culling works and next reset we will not need to buy items early on. this time only trade bots did the heavy lifting,
nearly all items of value are traded by bots. thats why demand and stock does not work. log in now prices still crazy high despite demand converges to 0.




Prompt:
a hated feature by the playerbase are towers but i think its an intentional change to combat RMT. can you guess why? do you know what players did use in poe1 to juice maps? juicing is the term used to maximise profits while running one map.

Show thinking
You've brought up a highly contended feature, "towers" (referring to the Precursor Tower and Tablet system in PoE2), and your intuition about GGG's anti-RMT motivations is likely very accurate.

First, let's clarify "juicing maps" in PoE1 and then connect it to the PoE2 "towers" and RMT.

Juicing Maps in PoE1:

"Juicing maps" in Path of Exile 1 was the art and science of maximizing the profitability of a single map instance by stacking as many modifiers and mechanics as possible. The goal was to increase:

Item Quantity (IQ): How many items drop.

Item Rarity (IR): The chance for items to be magic, rare, or unique.

Monster Density/Pack Size: How many monsters are in the map, leading to more drops and faster accumulation of currency.

Specific League Mechanics: Forcing highly profitable league mechanics (like Delirium, Legion, Breach, Harvest, Expedition, Blight, Strongboxes, Shrines, etc.) to appear and be enhanced.

How players "juiced" maps in PoE1:

Chisels: Increasing map quality for more quantity.

Orbs of Alchemy/Chaos Orbs: Rerolling maps for high Item Quantity/Rarity mods.

Vaal Orbs: Corrupting maps for additional quantity/rarity or to roll unique map effects.

Scarabs: Consumable items (e.g., Gilded Scarabs of Ambush, Legion, Delirium, Breach) that add guaranteed mechanics or greatly enhance existing ones. These were a primary driver of juicing.

Sextants (now removed/changed in PoE1): Modifiers applied to Watchstones that added global effects to maps in a region, often focused on monster density or specific league mechanics.

Atlas Passive Tree: Investing points in the extensive Atlas Passive Tree to empower chosen league mechanics, increase map modifiers, or enhance boss drops.

Map Device Crafting Options: Spending currency to add specific league mechanics (e.g., Beyond, Bloodlines) to a map.



Currency Investment: This process was highly currency-intensive. Players would spend Divines, Chaos Orbs, Scarabs, and Sextants (totaling many Divines per map) to create a single hyper-juiced map that, if successful, could yield massive returns.

This deep, deterministic juicing was a major source of high-tier currency and valuable items for the most efficient players and, crucially, for RMT operations. RMT bots could automate the entire juicing process – farming the scarabs/sextants/currency needed for juicing, then running the juiced maps with inhuman efficiency to generate an overwhelming volume of loot, which they then sold to players.

PoE2's Towers and Anti-RMT:

Now, let's look at the PoE2 "Towers" (Precursor Towers and Tablets) through your anti-RMT lens. The current implementation, as you noted, has drawn community criticism for its perceived complexity, fragmentation, and stop-start nature, often forcing players into unfavorable map layouts to "juice" effectively.

However, if we consider RMT, here's why it could be an intentional anti-RMT measure:

De-Optimization of Deterministic Juicing:

Unlike PoE1's global Sextant effects and predictable Scarab applications, the Tower system's radius-based, fixed-map-location juicing introduces a layer of spatial and RNG-dependent complexity.

Breaks Automation Chains: RMT bots thrive on predictable, repeatable sequences. The Tower system's requirement to path through the Atlas to reach specific towers, then apply tablets to nearby maps, and deal with overlapping radii or "bad" map layouts, makes the entire map-juicing process far less linear and automatable. Bots can't just load up a specific map layout and go; they have to adapt to the dynamic Atlas state and tower locations.

Increased Friction for Bots: The time and effort required to set up an "optimal" juiced area in PoE2 (finding overlapping towers, collecting the right tablets, clearing adjacent unjuiced maps) is significantly higher and less predictable than in PoE1. This increased "friction" makes it harder for RMT to achieve the hyper-efficiency needed for their industrial-scale farming.
Reduces the "Currency Sinks" for RMT-Sourced Juicing Materials:

In PoE1, Scarabs and Sextants were often sold in bulk by RMT operations because they were high-demand currency sinks for players wanting to juice.
If the PoE2 juicing system is less efficient or less broadly applicable, the overall demand for certain juicing materials (like specific Tablets) might become less constant, or their utility might be fragmented, making it harder for RMT to have a guaranteed bulk-sale market.


Encourages Organic Exploration over Industrial Grind:

While frustrating for players seeking pure efficiency, the Tower system encourages more varied exploration of the Atlas. For an RMT operation, this lack of concentrated, highly profitable "go-to" farming spots makes it harder to deploy thousands of bots targeting the same narrow set of activities.
That presents a very compelling case. While the community might dislike the current implementation of Towers due to its perceived tedium and inefficiency, it aligns perfectly with GGG's goal of disrupting RMT's ability to efficiently farm and manipulate the economy. By making the process of maximizing profits more complex, less predictable, and less automatable, GGG is directly attacking the industrial-scale efficiency that underpins RMT's dominance. It forces RMT to work harder, for potentially less predictable returns.

Very interesting Analysis.

Unfortunately, while the potential for RMT BOTS may be reduced, Spam chats, and Trade issues still show that while the RMT BOTS may be much less efficient, it still exists in overwhelming numbers.

"

Tomoee#7244 wrote:

why i like towers and no crafting????

There is not crafting in this game :D
This is slot machine...what you talk about???!!!

"

DarkDredd#2184 wrote:

"

Tomoee#7244 wrote:

why i like towers and no crafting????

There is not crafting in this game :D
This is slot machine...what you talk about???!!!

what about NO crafting you did not understand?

"

TrebligNairb#2645 wrote:

Very interesting Analysis.

Unfortunately, while the potential for RMT BOTS may be reduced, Spam chats, and Trade issues still show that while the RMT BOTS may be much less efficient, it still exists in overwhelming numbers.

yeah true but it was mainly because campaign dropped nothing and we arrived naked at maps and we HAD to buy things from tradebots since Tiered items did not work. and cause there was no craftign we were forced to give them divines for items ;D so they got massive initial divines to control the whole market.
they probably make more cash than ggg i mean they can afford youtube ads? lol

IF there is no crafting (which is their main source of free divines with farm bots in poe1) and IF we find our items where do they get divines from to buy and sell at higher prices? definitely would be on a much smaller scale and not on a we control the whole market scale ;D

also if you find items you do not care if they control the markets so much. mirror items aside. and i still think faustus should have mirrors at fixed price so ggg decides how long we have to grind for a good item and NOT rmt people that own 90% of mirrors ;D

Never played PoE1.
However, RMT is rampant in PoE2. When I was playing at least 2 people a day that wanted to buy my items for divines would "have to go buy divines" and they didn't mean from the currency exchange cuz they would leave the party then come back.
Any time I look at PoE content on YouTube it's plauged with RMT adds for the game. I even get RMT spam in game and on this website.

The sheer scarcity in PoE2 causes insane amounts of perceived value in items and currency in the game. So unfortunately the deterministic juicing actually would make RMT less profitable and therefore less common due to supply and demand.

This is a well thought out post and has potentially answered a few of my own questions. I am part of the group that enjoys and likes the end game, though a few tweeks to it is needed in my opinion but this game is still a working project and dont see it as complete as the "louder players treat it. I am extremely excited for its future, I have zero doubt this game will be successful and I wouldnt have put in over 1200hrs if I thought otherwise.

The problems of the trade players... 😂