lol... Why call it crafting? It's just gambling.

Crafting implies I have control over what happens. It implies I am crashing the hammer onto the anvil as I form the object into what I make it into.

PoE does not let you do that.



... Like, what is this? What a scam, LOL.




And I swear, if you degenerates defend this, too, I won't even know WHAT to say. There's no way the Stockholm is THAT strong in you... right??

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ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Crafting implies I have control over what happens.

You do though. If you know what you're doing and have enough currency, that is.

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ShadyC#1006 wrote:

... Like, what is this? What a scam, LOL.

Skill issue.

There were a lot of threads like this when the game was new but now more than a decade later people figured out how to craft whatever they want. Sure there is still gambling involved and crafting a perfect 6 mod T1 item costs A LOT but the example you showed is just an example of missing knowledge.

Or there is RNG God.

Because it's crafting.

It's both crafting and gambling.

On the surface, it's pure gambling. All you can do, is to minimize the RNG as much as possible, through knowledge, omens and heaps of currency. If you have those factors, calling it crafting is fine.

Crafting can never be "too deterministic" for the average Joe, because drops become useless if you can craft everything you need throughout the game. You THINK they are useless now, but if crafting was deterministic, drops would be useless no matter what. Which begs the question; why the hell do vendors sell good items?

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Ulsarek#7159 wrote:

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Crafting implies I have control over what happens.

You do though. If you know what you're doing and have enough currency, that is.

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

... Like, what is this? What a scam, LOL.

Skill issue.

Which I think defeats the purpose, right? I'm not sure if you're agreeing with the spirit if my OP in your post, but I feel like the whole principle of crafting, at least in regards to the economical factor, was supposed to be: You can craft good items for cheaper than their value, and sell them to people that "don't feel like crafting" for a profit, and do this to become richer.

I'll appreciate "skill issue" as a meme, but in response to it: There was literally no indication that this would be a problem. There was no mechanic that I didn't understand, or anything like that. It's SUPER obnoxious that the reason I failed at this craft attempt was because of an in-game system message telling me, "Nah, you can't do that though, lol." Implying that I should have known about this, or - god forbid - that one guy comes in here and tells me I should have Wiki'd it... This would be the WORST kind of response, and sets a standard that maybe I should Wiki if I'm allowed to use a Dell keyboard, or eat cereal at my computer, just in case there happens to be a special system message that tells me, "Sorry; even though you're abiding by the in-game set of rules, we've simply decided that we don't want you to do that anyway! Have a nice day. P.S. Sorry about the price of those fossils and resonators. May we interest you in hard-slamming them, and getting shitty affixes in everything you didn't manipulate? You like reflecting 2 physical damage to melee attackers, right?"

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

It's both crafting and gambling.

On the surface, it's pure gambling. All you can do, is to minimize the RNG as much as possible, through knowledge, omens and heaps of currency. If you have those factors, calling it crafting is fine.

Crafting can never be "too deterministic" for the average Joe, because drops become useless if you can craft everything you need throughout the game. You THINK they are useless now, but if crafting was deterministic, drops would be useless no matter what. Which begs the question; why the hell do vendors sell good items?

I imagine that the devil is in the details here with what you say. So, what, omens are the good thing right now, or something like that? I would say that's part of the problem. ALL of these methods that have built up over the years. Why are some of them - or most of them - just bad methods? At the time of my last play session pre-hiatus, Harvest was the current league. As a non-league player, I was just la de da for the time being... Then when that season ended, all of these INSANE items got flooded into Standard. At the same time, they nerfed the actual crap out of Harvest itself. So all of these godlike items were basically impossible to craft, ESPECIALLY for the same cost/effort, and you had to trade for that kind of quality. I feel like this is a good example of one of the problems with this game['s crafting].

... Plus, as I've mentioned above, and in response to you mentioning knowledge: This was a total blindside, as there was no reason for me to even suspect there may be an issue with what I was attempting. I thought that was the whole POINT of crafting: To combine various methods of craft manipulation. But as it turns out, you're either just supposed to partially manipulate some results while Hard Chaosing the rest of it, OR I simply didn't select whatever GGG wants to be the current crafting meta. Pick your poison on that one.




Anyway, whatever, I'm over it, I just hate this game LMAO. Time to just mindlessly farm maps or whatever, until my friend gets on for Marvel Rivals.

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ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Why are some of them - or most of them - just bad methods?

Do a 180 here, and ask the important question: What is a GOOD method. A method of crafting that still makes drops valuable. A method of crafting that still preserves the "oh damn" feeling of rare drops. A method of crafting that still makes trading for ITEMS part of the game?

Harvest was a mistake, and GGG have more or less said so. Harvest (and Ritual) were ALL about farming the crafts/juice for crafting. EVERY other mechanic in the game became useless. No one looked at drops. No one looked at the market (other than to buy crafting juice). When crafting is 100% deterministic, there's no game left IMO.

It isn't a shit game just because YOU can't craft what you want to craft every other second. It is VERY easy to craft "good enough items". It's VERY hard to craft "the best items", and I think that is an OK balance. You clearly do not know the ins and outs of crafting, and instead of blaming everything on the game, you could learn.

The balance between trading, drops and crafting is impossible. Some people want trading to go away. Some people want crafting to go away. Hardly anyone wants drops to go away. Pick your poison.

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de99ial#0161 wrote:

Or there is RNG God.

WHAT THE FUCK????

I have to admit that I am sexually attracted to this shield! ^^

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ShadyC#1006 wrote:

And I swear, if you degenerates defend this, too, I won't even know WHAT to say. There's no way the Stockholm is THAT strong in you... right??

That's an interesting way to open a discussion by calling anyone who disagrees degenerates. So, I'll go ahead and put that aside because it's a bad faith approach to the discussion.

This is a very tight rope that needs to be walked between making crafting better than things found on the ground. I would argue if one overshadows the other too much, you ruin the experience.

Let me start with this, the absolute best items in this game were crafted. Those ridiculous items that are up for sale in mirror services were not found on the ground; they were crafted. They also took a huge amount of knowledge and currency to create. So, I think that's okay. There is no way that overshadows the potential things you find on the ground.

There is also the middle ground where you can get decent items with crafting with just a little bit of knowledge about it.

Then there are the folks that was the currency or outcome to be easily accessible and deterministic, like 3.13. I think that ruined the game personally. It made the game into a crafting simulator rather than an ARPG where you fight things to get gear.

I honestly think the current state of crafting in POE1 isn't that bad. It irritates people who want it to be easy. It's usable for those who spend a little time learning it. And those who really want to, they can make ridiculously good things with enough time, wealth and knowledge. It doesn't make you feel bad for killing monsters rather than spending your time crafting, but it also doesn't stop extreme crafting if you care to.

POE2 is back to full-on gamble fest. That's a trainwreck for crafting for sure. But POE1 I think hits the mark for me.