questions from a Diablo player

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AcrylicHercules#1220 wrote:

Yep. That's what subjective means.

thats fair.

but when that's the case, then your opinion becomes less important as your opinion is very narrow and only applies to you.

tho i would then ask, have you ever purchased anything non cosmetic in POE?

follow up question, if yes, has your enjoyment of the game improved by said purchase?

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exsea#1724 wrote:

but when that's the case, then your opinion becomes less important as your opinion is very narrow and only applies to you.

Yes, and as I said in my post, using his argument Diablo Immortal can be said to not be p2w, and that's not a result I really like.

But he did help me clarify my views, so I'm thankful to him.

I would assert the following:

- Stash tabs do provide an advantage. Premium is almost necessary for trade, and currency and maps are needed for late game. The convenience is such a time saver that they are mandatory to be competitive on the ladder or in a boss kill event.

- However, once a player has a core set of tabs - at about the cost of a AAA game - more purchases do not give more power. So it's not possible for someone to spend their way to the top. Unlike Diablo Immortal, there are no whales in PoE.

- On that basis I would argue that PoE is not p2w.

(And I can testify that more stash tabs do not keep giving more power. Back in closed beta I chatted with Chris and offered to test the UI for a large number of tabs. Nowadays, I start a new league with around 400 tabs. Back before folders and being able to right-click a tab to leftmost, just dragging my currency and map tabs so I could get to them wasted a lot of time at the start of each league.)

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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AcrylicHercules#1220 wrote:

Yep. That's what subjective means.

thats fair.

but when that's the case, then your opinion becomes less important as your opinion is very narrow and only applies to you.

My point is that since PoE doesn't have a "win" condition, every individual player will have their own subjective definition of what "win" means for them. It's not just that my opinion applies only to me, it's that every player's opinion of "winning" in PoE, even yours, applies only to them. You spend some effort trying to describe your definition of winning as some objective measurement, but it's not. It's just as subjective as mine and everybody else's.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

tho i would then ask, have you ever purchased anything non cosmetic in POE?

follow up question, if yes, has your enjoyment of the game improved by said purchase?

Yes, and yes. And I don't consider that P2W.

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AcrylicHercules#1220 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

tho i would then ask, have you ever purchased anything non cosmetic in POE?

follow up question, if yes, has your enjoyment of the game improved by said purchase?

yes, and yes. And I don't consider that P2W.

you can feel free to not consider it as p2w, just that the most people will disagree with you.

WIN by definition can mean a lot of things. in the context that everyone is talking about, winning means advantage.

if you're talking about "win condition" poe does have some end game goals such as challenges. so if we're going that direction your definition is also still "inaccurate". i wont say wrong outright because i do understand what you're getting at. i do understand your angle where to you theres no "win" condition.

the way i see it you're coming from a way different angle where you're technically not wrong and is absolutely correct, but contextually you're objectively wrong.


using your line of discussion, i can argue that POE is NOT a free to play game. because you need to buy and own a PC, you need to pay electric bills and pay for internet bills too. thus POE is not free to play.

i am technically correct, but if we're seeing the context, i m objectively wrong. no one even begins to take into those factor whenever anyone talks about F2P

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CelticHound#7630 wrote:

I would assert the following:

- Stash tabs do provide an advantage.

you can actually stop here. once we've agreed to this, we've already established that the purchase has provided an advantage over non paying players.

but lets continue abit

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CelticHound#7630 wrote:

- However, once a player has a core set of tabs - at about the cost of a AAA game - more purchases do not give more power. So it's not possible for someone to spend their way to the top. Unlike Diablo Immortal, there are no whales in PoE.

so technically you're saying POE is an incomplete game which requires a certain amount of money to be paid before the advantage given by stashes is negated.

also what is the cost of a AAA game?

Interestingly the stashes are on sale now so we can see the prices and even assume the total cost using discounted prices

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Gem 30 (40)
Flask 30 (40)
Currency 60 (75)
Divination 40 (50)
Map 120 (150)
Blight 30 (40)
Essence 30 (40)
Fragment 55 (75)
Ultimatum 30 (40)
Delirium 30 (40)

To me i own stashes, but realistically just a few actually do matter

Currency 60 (75)
Divination 40 (50)
Map 120 (150)
Fragment 55 (75)

this 4 are the bare basic that i would consider mandatory for a player to have fun playing poe with minimal inconvenience.

60+40+120+55 = 275.

275 USD. bro. what AAA games are you playing that cost 275USD? this is discounted prices too. we're going above 300 usd if we dont include discount.

and to me if we want to talk about evening out the playing field then league stashes need to be included in.

have you heard about the prostitute joke?

a guy asks a hot girl, if she would have sex with him. she says HELL NAH.
then he says what if he offered her 1 million usd would she sleep with him? she considered a short while and said yeah. then he asked if he gave her 3000 USD would she sleep with him? she got upset and asked why he lowered the price. he told her

"we've established that you're willing to have sex with me for money, now i m just negotiating the price".

p2w is p2w. small amount large amount. same thing. its still p2w.

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CelticHound#7630 wrote:

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Northern_Ronin wrote:

Blight (Medium Importance)
[...]
Delve (Low)

Hi - I'd like your take on why you feel a Blight tab is more important than a Delve tab.

I have a Delve tab - and think it's useful for resonator clutter - but I never got a Blight and just use a regular tab for oils and blighted maps. What am I missing out on?

I think the ability to upgrade oils and easily see what mods I can build in with the oils I have at hand from the stash to be a bit more valuable than the clutter freeing Delve offers. But a lot of that is I do more blight than delve, so just sort of natural. I can see someone valuing Delve more than Blight in terms of tab priority.

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60+40+120+55 = 275.

275 USD. bro. what AAA games are you playing that cost 275USD? this is discounted prices too. we're going above 300 usd if we dont include discount.

Not arguing on p2w or not p2w, but 275 are the in game points. You get 10 points for $1 I think, so the cost is 27,5 USD ;)

Cheers,

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obsidian23#0833 wrote:

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60+40+120+55 = 275.

275 USD. bro. what AAA games are you playing that cost 275USD? this is discounted prices too. we're going above 300 usd if we dont include discount.

Not arguing on p2w or not p2w, but 275 are the in game points. You get 10 points for $1 I think, so the cost is 27,5 USD ;)

Cheers,

ah shit you're right lol.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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obsidian23#0833 wrote:

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60+40+120+55 = 275.

275 USD. bro. what AAA games are you playing that cost 275USD? this is discounted prices too. we're going above 300 usd if we dont include discount.

Not arguing on p2w or not p2w, but 275 are the in game points. You get 10 points for $1 I think, so the cost is 27,5 USD ;)

Cheers,

ah shit you're right lol.

Yeah if the basic tabs ran 275, this would be a VERY different conversation. But at just under 28, that's a more than fair price for a full game, doubly so you can play for however you'd like to know if you even enjoy the game enough to want to buy it. Most typical games of the size are going to be double that, or an endless subscription fee, which after a year will get well higher (Plus with supporter packs, you can get tabs and some fancy digs to go with if you've got the cash to spare). Or even just do a few bucks here and there if money's tight.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

you can feel free to not consider it as p2w, just that the most people will disagree with you.

I think you're wrong here

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exsea#1724 wrote:

WIN by definition can mean a lot of things. in the context that everyone is talking about, winning means advantage.

It's clearly not the context everyone is talking about

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exsea#1724 wrote:

the way i see it you're coming from a way different angle where you're technically not wrong and is absolutely correct, but contextually you're objectively wrong.

Thanks for that. I really needed the laugh today

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exsea#1724 wrote:

using your line of discussion, i can argue that POE is NOT a free to play game. because you need to buy and own a PC, you need to pay electric bills and pay for internet bills too. thus POE is not free to play.

If you need to distort the definition of F2P so much that no video game ever made fits the definition, then it ceases to have a useful meaning, as does your argument.