Completely out of funds so now I actually have to theorycraft (Kitava's Thirst)

Ok so I know the helmet just came out, but I've already tried 2 variations of builds with it.

Let me preface this by saying it's actually quite garbage as a spell caster. Sustaining 100+ mana per cast with a high enough cast speed to have a relevant proc rate on the helmet...all that by preferably avoiding mana pot use is quite difficult and unsatisfactory in the end.

Not to mention you want to avoid spell echo because it cuts your proc rate in half, making the mana sustain an even bigger issue.

Projectiles are out of the question because they just fly in completely random direction (most often backwards!), so using it on caster builds that thrive on casting shit from far away get analed.

I've given it a try with ice nova/vortex as my main spell and socketing in Kitava's; ice nova, bladefall, firestorm, vortex, shock nova, blade vortex and a few random spells.

Overall the proc rate was too low and the mana was still an issue even with heavy investment in regen on gear/tree + clarity.

Add to that the fact that the helm has no life and shitty ES...Yea. Not really a caster helm after all unless you wanna try using it with defensive spells?




So I got to thinking perhaps it would be better used alongside an elemental melee build. I do not have the funds nor the spare gear to try out a melee build so I'm stuck theorycrafting this shit with you guys. Also I've never made a melee build on PoE in the last 3 years so I'm looking at our Melee EA players for advice.

The core of this would be dual wielding something with a soul taker to avoid all mana issues and using fevered minds to increase the mana cost.

I was thinking of going Duelist. Not sure which ascendancy but leech would definitely be useful. I can get fortify some other way (whirling blades).

The main skill is undecided. Could be Frost Blades, lightning strike, even wild strike (wouldnt it be hilarious to finally make that skill viable lol?), etc.

One thing for sure, we can't use multistrike in the links. We also need to use the highest mana multipliers we can think of.

I was thinking;
Lightning strike -> Peirce (130%) -> Life gain on hit (150% and with something that lands a lot of hits, may not need vaal pact) -> Faster attacks (115% only, but needed to get more procs) -> Slower Projectiles (140%) -> weapon elemental damage (140%)

I went with peirce and slower proj instead of melee damage on full life + melee physical since the tag "melee" doesnt apply to the projectiles and thats what Id want to scale here.

Here's a random tree I built (note that this is the first time I even look at nodes in that section of the tree. Gonna need some help here)



My main concern here is the fact that I really don't have easy access to straight "elemental" nodes and everything has the damn "weapon" tag to it or "melee", which means the Kitava spells wouldn't do much damage.

So for all I know, this might be better as a melee shadow and maybe go crit. To be determined. All in all, I want to make Kitava work somewhere and I need help/ideas.

BRING ABOUT THE STORM



Go Icestorm and socket your stuuUUupid helm with Firestorm, go EE. Try that. Do it now.


Call the build IcyHot.

"

ocd_xana wrote:

BRING ABOUT THE STORM



Go Icestorm and socket your stuuUUupid helm with Firestorm, go EE. Try that. Do it now.


Call the build IcyHot.

The proc rate would be too low. The helm reduces cast speed by 15% and you lose about 30% cast speed from using the icestorm staff instead of wands/scepters.

I play elem melee and I can say i doubt LS without multistrike will give you enough to proc.


I tryed once to make similar build for melee elem but with scold and the only melee skill that could proc the spells quick enough was flickerstrike and I was using hitless to be able to proc quicker, granted it is on damage taken but it depend on the mana cost of skills too for bm users.

Ok after test on your gem setup in a tabula , the mana/hit is: 26 mana /attack without jewels.

Multistrike instead of slower proj is 33 mana cost.

I still think it is way to slow in my experience and flicker because of its high attack speed is a best choice for this type of builds.

edit.

5l multistrike give me 43 mana cost. you ll be able to get about 50 mana/cost with a 6l setup.Your casted spells will deal shit dps. Well unless you can buy 10+ grand spectrum.

This type of build remind me of shin build. If you go crit melee 2h, terminus est+flicker+grand spectrum?

dual wield I have no idea how dagger flickers get their charges so i can t tell. why no multi strike? All in all, Rlowe is right, some shit like firestrom would be the best option in the helm.

Shadow is also a better choice than duelist.

It is just my opinion maybe I am wrong haha

"

Head_Less wrote:

I play elem melee and I can say i doubt LS without multistrike will give you enough to proc.


I tryed once to make similar build for melee elem but with scold and the only melee skill that could proc the spells quick enough was flickerstrike and I was using hitless to be able to proc quicker, granted it is on damage taken but it depend on the mana cost of skills too for bm users.

Ok after test on your gem setup in a tabula , the mana/hit is: 26 mana /attack without jewels.

Multistrike instead of slower proj is 33 mana cost.

I still think it is way to slow in my experience and flicker because of its high attack speed is a best choice for this type of builds.

edit.

5l multistrike give me 43 mana cost. you ll be able to get about 50 mana/cost with a 6l setup.Your casted spells will deal shit dps. Well unless you can buy 10+ grand spectrum.

This type of build remind me of shin build. If you go crit melee 2h, terminus est+flicker+grand spectrum?

dual wield I have no idea how dagger flickers get their charges so i can t tell. why no multi strike? All in all, Rlowe is right, some shit like firestrom would be the best option in the helm and if you go melee elem...

Shadow is also a better choice than duelist.

It is just my opinion maybe I am wrong haha

Yea it's just hard to get the proc rate to an acceptable point. It feels like it was meant for defensive spells which kinda sucks. I think the proc rate would need to be about 50% instead of 30% (mjolner anyone? lol)

"

Simplesim45 wrote:

Yea it's just hard to get the proc rate to an acceptable point. It feels like it was meant for defensive spells which kinda sucks. I think the proc rate would need to be about 50% instead of 30% (mjolner anyone? lol)

Just thinking about it, If you go flicker+firestorm, pathfinder is the best choice because of ms.

Once again I am not sure how much of those jewels are enough, maybe 26 base mana cost of LS is ok with few of them (but were do you put grand spectrums then? :/)

I also think LS have plenty of problems. there is shit on the floor breaking the skill/walls + players warping and leap slamming.

what about
-wander barrage?
-incinerate?
-flameblast?
cyclone?

Probably Lapiz/markusz would know better how to make this helm work than me haha.

found this post in pve forum

"

FiveHundredRhoaPower wrote:

Best way I found to trigger it super fast (as in, trying to make the spell socketed in Kitava the main source of damage) is to use Quill Rain with Barrage (unsurprisingly).

Barrage + GMP + Life Gain on hit + Faster Attacks = 25 mana cost. Socket 3 Fevered Mind jewels on your tree and that 25 becomes exactly 100. Use Thief's torment to get mana back on hit from barrage.

I socketed that in gloves with the new "20% more attack and cast speed" mod obtained from one of the corrupted essences for extra speed:




My conclusions so far is that it won't work well offensively with projectiles, except maybe spark since it's already random anyway. It can work really well offensively with spells that don't need specific targetting so much such as firestorm or ice nova.

The other use where it might really shine is in more of a support / addon role casting curses or other support spells. You can have permanent molten shell, for example.

I was wrong, 26 mana cost of ls is enough with 3 jewels it seems. So a 13 jewels build (10 GS+3 mana ones) is possible.

LS have lot of weakness tho like I mentioned before.

If cast speed and mana cost are key, have you tried working apep's rage in there? I was thinking essence drain as main skill with contagion in the helm, but chaos isn't very pvp viable cause ci.

My thoughts about non-mainstream use:
- mines for mana drain, detonate mines in the helm (bypass cast speed drawback, fits the meta)
- molten shell into helm, hearthbound loop ring + skeletons to proc it, MoM + Zerphi to survive the ring (also bypass cast speed drawback kinda, no CWDT drawback on molten shell)

Getting 100 mana cost per skill use with mines requires no investment. Mine laying speed can be fairly fast. Sustaining this kind of mana usage without perma flasks, is anything but easy though, imo it's not worth the sacrifices+investment that would have to to be made. But to truly build for kitava's thirst, you need to make it work on an incinerator imo ;)

Markusz his suggestion for detonating mines with the helmets is pretty good, it'll be far smoother for sustained dps than relying on a detonate mine totem. The downside is that if you want to lay a full stack of mines, you will need a swap setup (main setup 100+ mana cost, alt setup 99-).

As for spells in the helmet, arc (auto target) and/or vortex (aoe with duration + chill + no counter damage) + shock nova (imo it complements vortex well) and/or frost bomb (I love cold damage) and/or curses (free blasphemy) would be my choices.

Can multiple exemplars of the same spell be triggered at the same time, or does it have to be all different spells?