Issues & thoughts on racing

Hey. This is copy-paste from https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3l3j9e/state_of_exile_podcast_ep_38_pt2_karv_ghazzy/ where I am bringing out my thoughts on some issues racing has at the moment.

#1 Issue: Lack of interaction from GGG towards what they think, want and do with racing

- We literally do not know, what GGG wants from racing. Whether it be a competitive series of races to demonstrate mastery of Path of Exile as said in the introduction of the Race Season, or more casual and fun -themed series of events to take a bit time off the "main game"?

- Development manifesto would be more than loved.

#2 Issue: Making racing more accessible to larger amount of people

- Some people can play a lot of races, some can't. This discourages people from racing since they are not "on even ground" for attaining overall season points for rewards.

3 Issue: Rewards are not rewarding enough for the majority of people

- Reading this reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3ku3z4/why_dont_you_play_races_in_path_of_exile/) about why people don't race makes it very, very clear that people want more rewards to make them spend time playing race events. More people would ultimately lead to more competition, which brings me to:

4 Issue: Role of RNG in the competitive scene of racing

- Don't get me wrong, there is always going to be some RNG no matter what happens and it is okay. Whether it be the damage range and crit chance of your skill, the reaction of monster AI (you kill a monkey -> do other monkeys just run away, stand still or assault you?) or a random lag-spike or another hardware issue. The problem is when there is too much variables that a person cannot deal with.

- Not being able to level up your gems to deal enough damage to keep up with the people who have the access to level their gems. Getting that Jade Amulet makes a huge difference, especially for casters such as Templar and Witch. We have recipe for +1 of elemental skills, what about vendor recipe for a jade amulet? Or a 100% access of buying all kinds of amulets/rings/belts at certain level, say 8?

- Pack-to-pack and progression time, also easily referred as QS (quick silver) and MS (movement speed boots) RNG. Two evenly skilled players (or same player, with 2 invidual runs) that have vastly different RNG for items such as MS boots, QS or getting that +1 linked with desirable colors have a huge difference in their results, since having all of those will save both time from making or searching them, and making you clear faster, safer, and without the need of going to town for hunting those items.

- Adding new stuff to the game and randomness of monster density and quality. Do you get multiple strongboxes with +3 magic monster, or a rare bear with powerfull crits, sub phys aura and the nemesis mod that teleports it to you, and one shots you?

- All of these have to combined for a top run. If you're lacking any of these, you are not going to be able to score the top run.

I am 100% sure there is other issues as well, and feel free to point them out, but these 4, for atleast me, are the ones that keep racing in this game so minor.

EDIT: This very forum secion (Race discussion) actually has a flavor text "Discussion of competitive racing, events, racing advice, finding race parties"

- Is it?

keep on korean girl band fwhaitin!!!

to make a change you need have effort!

i think one huge issue is having a ranking system that encompasses "skill" and supreme knowledge of the game is severely lacking. there is nothing competitive about a system that rewards grinding out races / lack of sleep.

i dont even think sig race records should be a thing that is rewarded or so emphasized as it's extremely rng based, i think crab_dad got salty that he didnt get 1 magic monsters box in southern and that cost him #1 sig record for templar. like what is so skilled about randomly getting magic monsters box or why should it be rewarded so. and how can you possibly think your run would better than someone else's based on 1 super random factor, like you actually earned it because DAT LUCK ROLL. sig records would be more relevant if racing were more legit (addressing absurd rng factors)

-HeaT

I s'pose it does depend on what racing is intended to accomplish (aside from being an alternative to leveling and grinding).

Is it supposed to be an at least partial simulation of the wider game, complete with all the RNG factors? Would minimizing the effects of RNG be a good or a bad thing for racing?

I like the effect RNG has on races. For one thing, it keeps every race from being almost exactly the same run. Sometimes you get that perfect run, with MS boots, a QS of Adrenaline, and all the sockets you need. Glorious! Usually, though, it's not nearly like that, and you have to overcome the limitations of your gear, etc.

The move toward "hidden" fixed seed does level the playing field quite a bit, but it may also magnify the effects of the RNG which remains. Is that good, or bad? I'd say it depends. A racer who gets great gear right off the bat can have an almost insurmountable edge. In the old system, he might still be held up by bad layouts, giving the guy who wasn't offered MS by Tarkleigh a chance at a little catch-up. Now, that variable is gone, at least in some races.

I guess my take is that racing is still a game of random variables. Pack types, drops, some map layouts (depending on format), vendor inventory... Even the effects of currency orbs. Either you have some randomness, or you have none. I just can't see GGG eliminating the variables entirely, even if only because it wouldn't be PoE, anymore. In fact, it wouldn't even really be a race, so much as a test of reflexes.

I like the recent changes to racing; GGG may still have some fine-tuning to do, but I dun think they need to change too much of the core of the game in these events. PoE racing is a test of how we do within the framework of the game. Most racers aren't hunting Demis, or even worried about the guy ahead of them. Many are racing to test themselves against their old performances, to improve, to see how far they can push. Others just want a few points so they can get the free bling.

Then there are those few, elite racers who have to rely on RNG to differentiate their performance from those others in their field. You guys who have squeezed so much efficiency outta your runs that even one box of blue mobs can spell the difference. Y'all are the ones RNG hurts the most.

First world problems, yeah? =^[.]~=

HI there,

with regards to the four issues, I'd say RNG is the least worrisome. I understand that it can be frustrating for top racers, but it keeps the races fresh. Otherwise, it would quickly become mechanical. The move towards "all players have the same layout" is something I'm still not sure about, but I guess it helps to make racing more comparable and better.

Issues #2 and #3 are both hugely important. I looked at the ladder a week ago and my estimate was that about 1000 to 1200 people are still racing regularly. The major problems are imho the reward tiers and the randomness of the schedule (assuming we have no new race "tech").

The schedule, to me, lacks clarity. It just doesn't have a meaningful pattern - I cannot plan my own schedule around my favourite race, because I cannot remember off the bat when it is. Why not have a more regular schedule? Ledge Burst is always on day x, the signature races are always on Friday to Sunday? It depends on your preferences, of cousrse.

As far as the reward tiers are concernted, I think they discourage novice racers and intermediate racers a lot. Why should I grind towards a flask that I don't want? I mean, I really want the Soultaker axe, but I know I won't get it at 500 points*. I simply cannot commit the time to that - and in the current meta, I am fine with that. However, it would be nice to "keep going" and collect a few things between the current rewards at 100, 250 and 500 points.



Ciao,
udergl


*I'm still salty about the BLAMT points. So tempting to think I could've gotten an "easy" (hehehehe) 100+ points.

"

udergl wrote:

However, it would be nice to "keep going" and collect a few things between the current rewards at 100, 250 and 500 points.

There's always the option to make another account to get a few more lower rewards. Useful when any player hits their top attainable reward for the season. boof even did that to get 2x 1000 point rewards a while back (and swore never to do it again :).

That's an option, but I'm more concerned with the long term interest for more casual players. Take me for example - I have 200+ points this season and it has been a huge effort to get them. I wasn't really excited by the upcoming rewards anymore when I passed 100 - it feels more like a long wait.

As a side note, to me it seems to be a bit off-putting that I've "won" three of the Sabres and that they do a raffle for the staff, the shield and even the bottle. I'd rather you couldn't win any of the regular rewards in the raffle. Perhaps they could put other things in the raffle, or scrap it. It takes away the exclusive achievement up to the flask. What do you think?

Ciao,
udergl

The raffle prizes are what keep a lot of players racing. Otherwise, just as soon as they reached their "goal" points, they'd drop out, and the race ladders would just be top-tier racers chasing 500-1000 points. ='[.]'=

"

Raycheetah wrote:

The raffle prizes are what keep a lot of players racing. Otherwise, just as soon as they reached their "goal" points, they'd drop out, and the race ladders would just be top-tier racers chasing 500-1000 points. ='[.]'=

=-[.]-=

I agree that the raffle prizes are a good idea, but for me it feels a bit stale that I just managed to get the flask and somebody else might win it. Separate the prizes into two groups - raffle and participation prizes. But it's a circumstantial issue. I'd much rather prefer a clear-cut schedule over that. :)

Ciao,
udergl